Author Topic: Pics of a lye bath in action  (Read 8295 times)

Offline James Wilson

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2015, 12:03:44 AM »
Hi Lewis, no worries.
If the weather cleans up here over the next few days I can jerry-rig a camp oven ready for the electro. Then take a couple of images to more clearly show how I work around cleaning pots and stuff.

The first image is the ETNA after the electro was completed. It took a number of applications to completely remove the rust scale and oxide. What you see there is a faint flash that wipes clean with a damp cloth. All of the rust and scale is gone.

The last image is before the caustic or electrolysis. The C.O was painted at this point, so the extent of the corrosion was not fully apparent.

I would go along with Marks advice too. After you have electro'd the pan, a flap disc on a 4" grinder would clear that piece up in short time.

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James,
Ha! Finally I have a justification for keeping the 1/2" thick SS office chair bases. I can remove the base and cut the legs such that they will fit in a skillet with enough space to avoid arcing. If not for this skillet then maybe some other piece in the future.
Nice drawing -- very helpful.

Thank you. Does the top picture (ETNA_interior.jpg) represent a before or after picture? If it is an after picture, the three-legged skillet currently looks about like that. If it is a before picture, do you have an after pic of the same skillet?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 12:11:07 AM by james »

Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2015, 05:36:17 AM »
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Mark, it does fit over and through the grates on our range. The fit is awkward and once in place the pan is not very moveable.

So, I take it that you don't have individual burner grates...hmmm.  Well what was your ultimate plan for this spider? To cook with? To display? To sell? Could you gift it to friends that do camp? What does this pan measure, btw?
 Even more controversial, if you *really really REALLY* wanted to keep and use it...you could... amputate the legs.  Pretty drastic I know, but if it's the only way to put the old veteran into your service again, which it clearly wants to do for you for all your efforts in saving it's life  ;), you could be frying eggs and sizzling bacon in no time. But I repeat, this is only if you wish to use it on your stove....I'm sure you have other skillets. So what was your plan for this one?  ;)


Offline Lewis Downey

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2015, 09:20:20 AM »
Mark,

It's not big. The skillet itself is 10" across. The length including the handle is about 20.5" and it is 5" tall. The handle in particular is massive compared to other skillets and holds a ton of heat. Otherwise it is just a 10" skillet with legs. Why did you call it a Spider? Is that a brand or design?

The original plan was to restore it to usable condition, access its value, and decide whether to keep or sell. Assuming it's value is negligible, I'll probably keep it because I like the design. It isn't going to be very long before I have to cull the herd; I am not sure where this particular skillet falls in the hierarchy of my heart.

Sez me the legs should remain intact. If the cooking surface becomes usable again, I'll probably figure out some way to cook in it. Maybe I'll be forced to build a simple firepit in the back yard on it's behalf.

I am trying to wrap my head around the issues associated with applying abrasive action to a piece of C.I.
It's kinda like that laxative commercial that talked about prunes "Is one enough? Are two too many?"
In this case "Is a handheld brush okay? Is a powered brush too much?  Where is the line? What should be considered?

Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2015, 11:31:00 AM »
So it's pretty much a #8 with legs. Skillets with legs like that are called spider skillets.
 What should be considered is 1.)the piece at hand, and 2.) what you plan to do with it. A no-name pan in that condition will never be worth much. If you keep it forever as a user, you might as well try to smooth out the cooking surface. I know I would. No brush is going to do it either, it's going to take a disc sander, as James said. That skillet was smooth once, that rough surface wasn't "cast into it, (from an earlier post), and it could be smooth again. And there are a lot of fine vintage skillets that saw abrasive action applied ..at the factory.  Now, certain things could go in the way it is, like a steak, bacon, beans and even cornbread probably. But if it were mine I would want it smoother. But it's not mine, it's yours so you'll have to decide.  ;)

Offline James Wilson

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2015, 02:29:08 PM »
Given that USA English is a variant of the proper Queens English and to save any confusion about the mentioned 'flap discs', here is an image.
Usual cautions, safety goggles, ear muffs and a mask of any sort;  because that cast iron dust will settle all over and invade your sinuses and any other available opening ;D  :(
Apart from that,  they work very well :)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 02:29:49 PM by james »

Offline Lewis Downey

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2015, 11:00:58 PM »
James,

Thanks for the picture of the flap disk. I'm looking forward to pictures of your anode-in-the-middle set-up.

So...

This must be a bit of a religious issue. How do you decide when to abrade or reshape a surface? Cheryl will never wire wheel her cast iron while the guy in this video seems ready to do so at the drop of a hat.  Mark is of the opinion that this particular skillet has crossed a threshold and represents a rare case where it makes sense to sand the inside of the skillet smooth.

I can see the sensibility of each of these positions (less-so the routine wire wheeling approach). By nature I would prefer to leave the piece intact, but by nature I would also like to leave it with the best cooking surface possible. My skillet is not very useable as-is but might become quite usable with appropriate abrasion.

Smoothing its surface is unlikely to reduce its market value but does it reduce some other inherent value? If I opt to smooth the inside would it be better, worse, or make no difference to also smooth the outside?

What questions do you ask yourself when deciding whether or not to hit a specific piece of CI with your flap disk?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 11:05:28 PM by Lewisland »

Offline Chris Stairs

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2015, 12:13:33 AM »
I have a few that I use that are very very pitted. It does not seem to cause any issue with cooking.
  I use this old dutch oven for beef roasts, and sear them on all sides without adding any oil to the pot. Sometimes I use a larger pot for larger roasts, and it is an iron mountain by Griswold, smooth as glass inside. Both ovens perform well.

  It is your item, and you can "fix it up" however you like, but if you want to use it, then just season it. The food will not care.
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Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2015, 03:34:25 AM »

I guess I've have developed the certain philosophy.. finally.. regarding pieces that are in very poor condition.

Walk on by.... and don't even invest the time and energy to further destroy it.   

Unless, it is a unique, identifiable, historically significant piece... then do the best you can to preserve what is left of it, without further altering it.

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while the guy in this video seems ready to do so at the drop of a hat.

Unfortunately, there are many that advocate wire wheeling of CI to restore it.  I am not one of them.  I have seen way too many messed up pieces, and I can tell when a piece has been wire wheeled.   I believe it is the lazy man's way.... 

I am certainly equipped to utilize the least invasive methods to restore my Cast Iron, based on what I have been taught here on the WAGS Forum.  Multimodal approach is used.  Lye Bath, Electrolysis, Vinegar Bath, Evaporust, Molasses,etc.

Restoration methods are implemented based on the condition, and challenges, of each individual piece that I restore. With nary a power tool in sight..........




Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2015, 07:05:07 AM »
Well there you have it, varied opinions, and I agree with all of them. I already knew from past comments that Cheryl would pass on a piece in this condition. Her iron is all very valuable and collectable and her skill at restoring them is second to none and I would never advocate the use of any power tools on pieces like that. It just isn't necessary and would also devalue the piece.  This piece is not one of those. She would walk on by, because she knows you can't fix pits with lye, electro, vinegar, derusto and elbow grease..the tools of her trade, and I also know any power tool will not be one of them. So she only buys pieces that can be restored with those methods, or it's an otherwise exceptional peice like she said.  But you've already put a lot of time and effort into this piece, a project so to speak, and good on you for trying.  So I can't agree that you would be "further destroying" a heavily pitted piece that otherwise would just die in a scrap heap somewhere if nobody at least tried to put it back into service. 

 I also agree with Chris, and said the same thing earlier, that certain foods could be cooked in that skillet as it is. 

 But I mostly agree with James and the flop sander on this particular piece. If this was my project, I would finish the project, if for no other reason but to see if I could do it. When I cook a steak in cast iron, I like to deglaze with some red wine, butter and a little garlic for a simple sauce to pour over the steak (and potatoes, yum). I scrape up the burned bits with a flat spatula to mix it all together. That would not be possible with that pan as it is. I suppose you could do it with a stiff bamboo brush like they use for cleaning woks or something similar.
  I would be careful about doing the outsides too though. If you try it, you're going to be removing quite a bit of material to get it smooth inside.  It may, or may not be, thick enough then to do both sides...you wouldn't want it to be too thin.  I probably would do a little on the handle though. ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 07:49:47 AM by mark21221 »

Offline Chris Stairs

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2015, 02:02:40 PM »
  I can understand why someone in 1930 might cut the legs off of their grandmother's spider skillet to make it more suitable for use on the stove at the migrant camp. When times are hard, folks must make do.

   I think rather than modifying an artifact from the past to allow it to be used in some certain way, I would just grab one of my other pans from the shelf. One more suited to the task.

  Most of us have enough iron that some item or other that we have already preserved will fit the bill. If you already have a skillet that is smooth, and that you use for that kind of cooking, why go to a bunch of extra work to make another?

   The owner must decide on a case by case basis. If you leave it be now, you could always flap-disc sand it later, but you can never un-flap-disc sand it once done. If someday down the road, so many of these have been discarded and destroyed that they become valuable in original condition, yours will not be original.

 Mine will.

Chris
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Offline Lewis Downey

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2015, 02:10:37 PM »
Cheryl,

Here is a question of theory or principle or something. I admit to doing things that reduce the amount of time and labor I have to expend to get a result. The lye bath and electro do that nicely -- clearly without harming the CI.

If I securely mount a SS scrubbie to a "drill bit" in such a way that the CI is protected from the shank and other mechanical elements, would it be a problem to use that tool?

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2015, 02:38:18 PM »

I have not found anything that will hold the SS scrubbie together once spinning begins.  Centrifugal force causes it to flatten out too much, even at low rpms.

And even though I have some small Stainless Steel brushes available to use for WET scrub downs, I also know to use a very light touch (especially around lettering), brushing in one direction only, or else a polishing effect is obvious. (circular brushing).

I save my power tool fetishes for other things... Aluminum restoration being one.  Here's hoping that this Spring & Summer I will finally fire up that bench polisher and learn how to use it with out doing myself in! 8-) 8-)






Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2015, 10:45:57 PM »
Whoa! I stand corrected...I guess Cheryl does have a power tool or two in her arsenal. I had no idea... 8-)

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I think rather than modifying an artifact from the past to allow it to be used in some certain way, I would just grab one of my other pans from the shelf. One more suited to the task.

Chris, I wholeheartedly agree... just use a different pan. That's what I would do too. All other suggestions were based on a perception that Lewis is trying to find a way to  use this spider on his stove, so I'm trying to help him find a way to somehow do it.  But thanks for stating the obvious..just use another skillet more suited to the task. Simple.  I would still sand that sucker tho. I've never done it..never had one that was this bad..but I've been curious to try it if I ever do acquire the right candidate.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 11:22:26 PM by mark21221 »

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2015, 10:56:23 PM »


I have a ton of Power Tools... <fetish>, but they don't get used on my Cast Iron.  Not even the Dremels...

Experimentation on a cracked skillet, or lead filled skillet, is not banned...



Now Aluminum... that is going to be a whole different ball game... :)


Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2015, 11:27:21 PM »
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lead filled skillet

Lead filled skillet?! I've never heard of that before. Is there really such a thing?  :-?

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2015, 11:29:56 PM »


Meaning a piece that has obvious lead residue from melting lead into it, or lead based solder drippings....

Offline James Wilson

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2015, 01:13:13 AM »
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James, Thanks for the picture of the flap disk. I'm looking forward to pictures of your anode-in-the-middle set-up.

We had a beauty day this Wednesday so I got busy; and then its done, right?
Here are a couple of images Lewis. They are largely self-explanatory but if you have a question, fire away.

The last image is a dummy set-up with an to show how I rig my electro.
I use standard gas welding wire for connection to the DC.
The timber arm is drilled to allow me to suspend various items along its length.
The chain is a length of standard split-link to suit. The bar hooks are 2 modified split-link pieces.
The split link I use is industrial grade and will support a 15 inch C.O, no worries. Do not use the cheap cosmetic type of split-link from the likes of haberdashery stores. 



« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 02:42:27 PM by james »

Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Pics of a lye bath in action
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2015, 06:09:57 AM »
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Meaning a piece that has obvious lead residue from melting lead into it, or lead based solder drippings....
Oh.....duh.

Nice set-up, James  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]