Why the difference in weight and pourous

[snedman]

I recently got into cast iron about 2 weeks ago. When I get into an item I usally go all out and try to get all the information I can to make the best purcahse possible and the best purchase based on the most accurate information.  Here is a couple questions I have. I know at elast from reading all of your post that you guys/gals seem to be extremly intelligent about cast iron questions.

1.) I purchased 2 wagner skillet pieces and 1 Griswold skillet. I also purchased 2 brand new lodge pieces I found at a flea market this past weekedn for $3 each. Now, here is the question. I noticed that the Griswold and Wagner skillets were extremely light and extremely polished(smooth) compared to the lodge skillets. The Lodge skillets were at least 2 times heavier and that the surface of the Lodge pieces were very "rough" and not smooth like the Griswold or Wagner pieces I bought. Can somone explain to me why the older pieces would be lighter and why the lodge pieces are heavieer and much rougher surface to them?

3.) I have been reading quite a bit that cast iron is not at all good for making dishes like chili's, beef stews with tomatoe's etc. Tomatoes seem to be very caustic to cast iron from all your posts and what I have also read elsewhere.  It seems to be that cast iron is used because of the flavor that it imbedes into the dishes that are made with it. The alternative seems t be cast iron covered with enamel for this purpose of chili etc. If the cast iron has enamel on it would this obviously not make it just as efficient as making it in steel, aluminum, glass cookware? On that note on enameled cookware Le Creuset, Descoware, etc what is the use of even cooking with it if it doesn't embed the flavors that cast iron is known for when you make the food. Am  I missing something on enamel? maybe someone can explain to me what the benefits if any cast iron with enamel finish would even have over another style of cookware.

3.) And my last question, What makes one cast iron manufacturer better then another for the same type of item? I mean there is Lodge, Wagner, Griswold, Le Creuset, Hackman, Staub, MSE, Martha Stewart Brand Cast Iron, Wapak, Filley, Iron Mountain, etc and so on. Why would I purchase a piece that is the same "size" skillet , dutch oven, etc for more money if they all serve the same function? Please help me understand why one would/should cost so much more then the other for the same product. Obviously discontinued manufacturers would cause a price increase but any other reasons>?

Thank you so very much in advance for your time.

David Snedeker

[Brian Vick]

Hi David,
I will briefly address #2 Acid foods can tend to react with ferrous metals and leave an aftertaste...some people find this objectionable others dont mind it. The offshoot on this is that trace amounts of iron are consumed with your food and allmost all of us need more iron in our diets. The pocelinized pieces of which I own several do not give off  any oxidation hence no aftertaste. The non stick qualities of porceline vs. iron are roughly equal considering how it's seasoned. The drawback with the porcelinized stuff...IT CHIPS  It's darn delicate and  you need to be real carefull when you clean it and how you use it. It's all a matter of taste no pun intended.

Brian :P

[Baggsy]

David, you have come to the right place for cast iron questions.  It won't be long and some of the afficionados will help answer your questions.  Here's how I would answer but your milage may vary...

1)  Old Light, New Heavy- the art of casting iron took on new meaning in the early 20th century and continued until the 40's or 50's.  The pride of workmanship was there and pieces were cast light, polished  and finished in such a way as to resemble fine porcelain.  Some are finished so well as to almost be works of art.  Cast iron today has become more crude because it just doesn't pay to finish a piece to the same degree as they did back then.  It would be cost prohibitive to add extra hours of labor onto a piece.  But this is all in the eye of the beholder.  If you like a new heavy piece, get it.  But pick up an old 108 Griswold Skillet griddle that is in good shape and it will appear that your old skillet is like cooking on a truck bumper.  It is the fine old pieces that spark the interest on this board.

2)  Acidy foods are fine in a properly seasoned cast iron skillet/dutch oven/.  The chili will turn out nicely in it, and it won't hurt the skillet a bit as long as you don't store the leftovers in it for a week.  That goes with any food, don't shove it into the fridge with the leftovers to set until it grows a green fur coat.  Cast iron can be reaseasoned when need be which the teflon/enamelware/etc cannot be.  When they go bad you just throw them away and get another at walmart.  In today's 'throw away' society part of the alure of the old cast iron is that it is timeless.  It'll cook just as good for your grandkids as it does for you today as it did for your grandmother 50 years ago.  If you spend $25 on a skillet that lasts 100 years, the cost per year is alot lower that a $10 one that last 10 years.  

3)  Maker Vs Maker.  It comes down to what you like.  You can't go wrong with an old Wagner or Griswold.  Even if you can't stand it on the stove or how it looks, you can sell it for a whole lot more that a chintzy piece from Taiwan.  Some like Lodge, some don't.  Wagner goes for a fraction of Griswold but in some cases is almost better cast than it's Gris counterpart.  The new stuff (read post 1960) doesn't get much attention out here as the workmanship just isn't there.  Some fancy LaChrochet is like the guy down the street with the new Mercedes while we're still driving the '54 Chevy truck.  Apples and oranges, not much comparison.      

[D Snedeker]

 :)  Wow you guys are really on the ball. The only question I have left from this segment is the enamelware portion. What if any would be the advantage to cooking with a Le Creuset piece Descoware versus traditional cast iron? You other answers have been great so far and very much appreciated.

David Snedeker

[snedman]

Brian,

         Not that your post does not answer some of my questions, But, under what circumstances would it be more advantageous to use enameled cast iron? what advantes would it have? can you boil water for Spaghetti in traditional cast iron or would this be where the enameled cookware would come in handy Those type of questions that I can't seem to find out there.

Would it alos be fair to say from reading the post above that Wagner in general has an overall better craftsmanship then Griswold? or just certain pieces in general.

Thanks
D. Snedeker

[Baggsy]

Enamelware or Graniteware has it's place.  I have some in my grub box that goes camping with me.  It's lighter and easier to pack that the heavier cast-iron.  It won't fry better than cast iron as it get's hot spots and doesn't heat as even as cast.  It'll boil water nicely but so will a tin can.  I'm sure it has it's place, maybe in a retro kitchen.  But it won't convert a cast-iron purist.  I like it camping, the plates are unbreakable and easily cleaned, but you have to watch and not chip them.  I've got a couple pans and a coffee pot that make every trip.  But when weight isn't important dinner gets cooked in a cast iron skillet and a dutch oven.

Wagner isn't better than Griswold in many cases.  Some pieces are extremely well cast and stand right with Griswold.  They can 'usually' be had for much less than Griswold.  I think they are real sleepers on e-bay right now.  But the newer stuff after they buyout and especially the 1891 anniversary edition stuff is awful crude.  I've got an old WardWay 12 inch skillet that was my Grandmothers and made by Wagner way back when.  It's seasoned superbly and while it may not be a turn of the century Erie in terms of casting, it's a cooker extraordinaire.  They bring about $2 on E-bay.  Great buy and one you don't worry about hurting because it cost so much.  Same with my Slant Griswold Dutch Oven.  It's closing in on 100 years old and has a marriage lid, but it cooks great.  I made chicken gumbo in it tonight.  I could have cooked it in enamelware but I wouldn't have the same feeling cooking in it.  There's a pride of ownership and use in the old stuff.  It just 'Feels' right.  There's other pieces that are so collectible that you probably wouldn't feel right cooking on them.  But they'll still cook better than the new stuff.  They've just reached Legendary Status.  But I bet they're not happy sitting on the shelf.  They were made to fix food to put in our bellies.  That's there calling.  While technology has moved way beyond them they still stand supreme.  Similiar pieces could be made today, but economics keeps them from being made.  Pick you up an old crusty one that catches your eye at a flea market.  Set up an electrolysis bath and run it thru till it looks like new.  Season it up and see if you aren't proud of it.  You'll be more attached to it than one off the shelf at camp Walmart.  Tap into those that know their stuff here and you'll be hooked.  Getcha an old waffle iron for a real blast from the past.  Clean it up good, season it, get Gregs old waffle recipe on the cooks forum, and impress everyone at the breakfast table.  You'll see what we mean...    

[Jerry Cermack]

I think the old porcelain coated cast iron  did not hold up to hard use and heat very well.  Most of it you see is scorch stained, chipped and or crackled.  It might have been pretty but wasnt very practical in my opinion.

[Steve_Stephens]

:)  What if any would be the advantage to cooking with a Le Creuset piece Descoware versus traditional cast iron?

David,
Porcelainized cast iron has some advantages in that most foods will not react with the surface of the piece.  And you can boil water or steam vegetables in them.  Cast iron, on the other hand, is affected by acids in foods such as tomato sauces which will both etch the iron and impart a bad flavor to the food.  If the black iron pot is seasoned well then it is coated with the seasoning and the food will not come in contact with the actual iron itself.  Bare cast iron should be used only to cook foods that are somewhat greasy and not for boiling or cooking fresh vegetables without some oil added.

Griswold made the best quality pieces if you take their whole line over the years as an example.  But, from other companies come individual pieces that may be better than what Griswold made in terms of quality, style, function, etc.  A lot of the appeal of any piece is in the eye of the owner.   Iron cookware can be like a favorite hammer or other tool.  Some tools just seem to work and feel better than others be it from a better quality or it fits your hands better.

When I am using my old skillets I find ones that, for whatever reason, feel better and seem to work better and those are the ones that I use, and enjoy using, the most.

But the blue and red books by Smith & Wafford as your first books and they will keep you busy for hours learning all sorts of things.  They are excellent books but not everything written in them is totally accurate as with most books.

Come to our convention in Sidney Ohio this Oct.-Nov. and you should see more iron than you would believe possible along with being able to talk to other nuts about iron.  Welcome.  This is a great hobby that can quickly make your house heavy.
Steve
Steve

[snedman]

Excellent. The group has certainly answered my questions. I appreciate all of the time that went into each answer each of you has given. I Will definetely spend the extra $$ and get some "better crafted" cast iron cookware then the lodge. And I will certainly get the books that were recommended.