Unbranded Wagner skillets

[Craig Allison]

Is there any way to guess the dates of unbranded/unmarked Wagner pans.

[Russell Ware]

You can use a ballpark figure of roughly 1960-1985. At the end of that range, they started using the Wagner's 1891 logo until they basically closed. Sure, you can find some of the ground cooking surface skillets during this time frame that are good users, but the outside of the skillets are pretty rough, and they are not exactly collectible. Especially in the 1970's, GHC would use both Wagner and Griswold labels on the same piece, depending on where it was being marketed. The unmarked piece you/us/ebay call "unmarked" Wagner may have actually been sold with a Griswold label on it. There is no way to tell once the label has been removed.

[Craig Allison]

I had been lead to believe that Wagner produced these pans at the same time as their others. I assume the Sydney O period of time. I thought they sold them without the Logo so that they could be sold at lower prices in various stores like hardware stores, etc. The ones I have are light weight and smooth as any branded Wagner I've ever cooked on. I guarantee they were made before 1965 due to no "Made in USA".

 

[Russell Ware]

You are correct that some of the unmarked skillets were made prior to 1960, and they are of higher quality than the later unmarked Wagner you would typically see on ebay these days. Don't think there are any guarantees in the vintage cast iron market though. I've seen some pretty smooth early Taiwanese skillets that are both smooth and ground well. If you want to try to date an older unmarked Wagner, look to the older marked examples for dating. Look for placement of size markings, handle, and things like that. Posting photos always help if you are looking for the best advice. My first comment was made based on no photo and the fact that most unmarked Wagner pieces I have seen are post 1960. The more specific a question is, the more accurate is the answer you can receive. General questions get general answers.

[Craig Allison]

I'll put up some pics tomorrow.
I still think that dating them is gonna be pretty vague.
Just wondering because I'm gonna sell some of the ones that I stripped and seasoned as practice pans when I first began.

[Craig Allison]

As you can see, they all have the newer style of handle that Wagner was using in the 50's.
From that I can safely guess that these pans are all about the same.

Correct?

[Russell Ware]

These are post-1960 pans. More than likely pre-1970 before the purchase by GHC which ran their quality into the ground.
Someone who knows Wagner a little better than I might be able to say whether these are Palmer(sp?) or Tectronix(?) era pans.
As stated earlier, "Sure, you can find some of the ground cooking surface skillets during this time frame that are good users."

[Craig Allison]

These are post-1960 pans. More than likely pre-1970

Shouldn't they have the "Made in USA" label like this POS?

[Craig Allison]

And understand, In no way am I trying to be argumentative.
Just trying to get clarification so that I don't spread false info to others.

[Russell Ware]

We try to steer people to the books about Griswold and Wagner. We refer to them as the Red, Blue, and Yellow Schiffer books. In those books, there is an example of the Telflon coated pan the Wagner foundry made after they were bought out in 1959. These skillets, as well as yours, only had bottom size markings in inches at that time (early 1960's). "Made in USA" was not yet prevalent on all domestic cast iron cookware. The Asian invasion wasn't really rolling until the 1970's, and that drove US foundries to start consistently mark their products. But everything hit the fan in the 1970's: recession bleeding over at the end of the 1960's, oil embargo, inflation, low cost import cast iron, and the eventual no more spare parts for the old cast iron polishing machines.Earlier unmarked Wagner also does not have the size written in inches on the bottom, only the whole number is indicated, i.e., #3 (and perhaps an inventory number), not 6 1/2 inch skillet. That type of size indication appears to have started with BSR's Century Line of cookware, and Wagner picked up on that starting in the 1960's.

[Craig Allison]

OK thank you.
As I've said before, I have so much to learn and apparently some to "unlearn".

[Cheryl Watson]

Craig Allison, while unmarked Wagners were produced from the early 1900's forward.... there is no easy answer to identifying them.

It starts with the Marked items from each time period and learning the handle style and 'form'/styles that can be compared when an identical unmarked item appears.

Most of the 'newer' unmarked Wagner/Griswold by Wagner are identifiable by the use of size in inches.... and handle style.  Made in USA was never a requirement, and I believe was used more often in the 70's, based on original label items found.  (and then used inconsistently)

I have original Wagner and Griswold by Wagner, catalog/price sheets from 1955 forward, and I am increasingly convinced that some form of Catalog number(yes they changed to 2 or 3 digit) was used up until Joseph Wagner (General Manager) retired in 1965. With that in mind, I date newer items from 1965 forward... for now...  There are a handful of items (not skillets) that were patented and introduced in the 70's/80's so those are the easy ones!

[Craig Allison]

As I said, some things I've been told may not be completely true.
I thought that in the mid 60s it became mandatory for "Made in USA" to be a part of labeling but now I need to research that a bit more.

It's easy enough to believe these are late 50s or early 60s. AND y'all make it clear that they might go past that.
Whatever. They make some fine pans for cooking in. And it's good to know that if I sell a few of these that I won't be making them out to be anything more than that.

Thanks to both of you for pointing me in the right direction.

[Cheryl Watson]

Craig, many of us have been 'battling' the myths for many years.... this is probably the best articulation that I have come across by a researcher... to date.
Credit to Mr. David Luckie on the BSR Facebook Group (Public).... reproduced with permission.

David Luckie

The year 1960 has nothing to do with the existence or absence of "MADE IN USA" on cast iron or any other domestically produced goods.

Section 304 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (Hawley-Smoot or Smoot-Hawley) required the vast majority of imported goods to bear identification informing the ultimate purchaser of the item(s)' country of origin. The COO statement could appear on labeling, packaging or on the item itself. That remains law today but enforcement has always been inconsistent.

However, there has never been any law or regulation requiring domestically made items to bear a COO statement. A domestic manufacturer may choose to claim their product to be American made. But if they do, they must comply with the "Made in USA" standard. Labels and packaging were good enough to establish the claim. That standard has also been applied loosely and with inconsistent diligence. The standard has also been modified numerous times since its establishment.

Sometime in the mid-1960's, cast iron manufacturers began displaying "MADE IN USA" prominently on some of their products. They also kept selling iron with paper and cardboard labeling that included the statement. This means that just because a piece of iron does or does not display "MADE IN USA", it is of no help in establishing a cutoff date. For example, there is no way to tell the age difference between any two skillets from Lodge's last run of 3-Notch (1965-92). Or any two skillets from Birmingham Stove & Range Century line of that time. Or any two from the combined company producing the Unmarked Wagner line.

The cut-off year 1960 appears to have been a whole cloth fabrication, propagated by a certain website known more for what is has gotten wrong than it has gotten right.

[Sandy Glenn]

I've been reading this thread with interest since Craig's original question on 10/13 and can only add one point to Cheryl's above post: 

You just got your money's worth from your WAGS dues.

[Lee Bowen]

And cheap at twice the price.

[Craig Allison]

Again, thanks to all of you for patiently clearing this up for me. Or have you muddied the waters a bit? 

I'll stick around for a while because There's a lot here I can learn. And I think I can trust your history lessons a lot more than what I was previously told.