Budget/Economy skillet lines?

[awdye]

I just recently purchased a Favorite/Piqua Miami #9 and a Wagner/National #7.  I understand that these were the economy or budget skillet lines from these two manufacturers and that the skillets were slightly shorter in height and slightly smaller in diameter than their regular line of skillets, presumably to save on material costs.  

At least from what I can see, the workmanship on these is actually very good and they are attractive skillets.  Looking at the blue book it appears they were only produced in sizes 7-9, I'm assuming this is because these were the most likely sizes to be purchased by the average buyer.

Did others produce an equivalent line of economy/budget skillets?  I have a set of griswold iron mountains (3-10 inclusive) but these appear to be full sized skillets.  

These economy skillets seem to be the ideal gift (a set of 7-9) for someone who can't handle the weight of a the full size skillets but still want to cook in cast iron, say someone a little smaller, older, or with arthritis.

[moosejaw]

someone a little smaller, older, or with arthritis

Maybe I should get a set of these!

I know different companies made cast iron for Sears, Monkey Wards, etc.  I don't know if these were "lesser" in quality, but I know they generally don't sell for the same price as pieces made by the OEM.

I can think of one exception to this.....Andresen, which was made by Griswold.  I have never found Andresen pieces to go below the comparable Griswold, and in some cases Andresen goes higher.  There may be other companies that had an OEM make pieces for them, but Andreson is the one that came to my head.

I am sure others will chime in with their thoughts.      

[Steve_Stephens]

Hey Alan,
Now that I can see your photo I can say, emphatically, that I did not see you this morning at Alemany.  Maybe you got there before I did and cleaned it out??  I haven't found anything there in many tries the past year and will probably give up.

Regarding the Miami, National, Oneta (Wapak), Victor (Griswold) and other possible "cheaper" lines of skillets I can tell you what Wagner said in their catalog (1924) about their National skillets:

"Dealers often have a demand for an exceedingly low-priced skillet, or desire a utensil that can be featured in sales as a special for quantity selling.

The National Skillet has been made to meet this need.  It is not the equal of our regular skillet, but it is neat and well finished, and equal to many so-called extra finished skillets which other manufacturers offer.  It is the lowest priced buy in our line.

We would not advise our customers to use this skillet in place of our regular goods but they can be handled in addition to these, to meet the low price demand.  They will give better satisfaction then wrought iron or steel skillets, as they will not warp.  They have raised bottoms to equalize heat.  Aritcles cooked in them will not adhere to the skillet or become discolored."

So, that's Wagner's propaganda to their dealers.  "Won't warp, won't stick".   A bit optomistic I'd say.  But these pans do seem to be just the same great quality of their regular line and that is what I feel about the other makes of these No.7-9 skillets.  Griswold, in the early 30's added the rare Nos. 5 and 6 Victors to their 7-9 sizes.  I think most of these lower priced pans were made for many years.  Victors seem to date from about 1890 or so.  

I have a No.7 nickel plated Miami I am fond of plus my Victor 5 which I often use for hamburgers.

One thing that surprised me was a post the other day saying that a certain Favorite skillet cover would fit both their regular skillet and their Miami skillet which says they were both the same diameter at the top.  I am not sure about that but I don't have covers to check.  Generally these skillet do have a smaller top diameter I think as well as being slightly shallower.

These companies didn't want to lose business to cheaper goods so they made their own.  I think they probably didn't make much on these pans since the amount of work to make them was the same as on larger pans and the iron itself was cheap.  Sort of a loss-leader?

Steve

[Troy_Hockensmith]

They have raised bottoms to equalize heat.  Aritcles cooked in them will not adhere to the skillet or become discolored."

HMMMMMM Raised bottom to equalize heat.

[Greg Stahl]

HMMMMMM Raised bottom to equalize heat.

hmmmmm heat rim/ring for equalization of heat does come to mind.... now doesn't it!

[Steve_Stephens]

Yes, not a word about "raised bottoms to eliminate smoke".   And one Griswold catalog (1890-91) says "rimmed" for several pieces including skillets and griddles.
Steve

[Troy_Hockensmith]

I don't dispute that that is what kept a ring around for so long but this is a much later catalog that was printed long after the gate mark was gone from the bottom of a skillet. I don't claim to know the answer but I sure do have fun talking about it and am always trying to figure it out.  I sure do hate a mystery and this hobby sure has it's share.

[awdye]

Hey Steve,

I went to the Alemany flea around 8.30 but if you came after, you didn't miss anything.  I bought a Griswold #32 aebleskiver pan for $20, but that was it.  Have a childhood friend who's Danish and wanted one.  They sure are tasty, and his mom made great aebleskivers.  Promised me her recipie in return for a pan.

Thanks for the tidbits on the economy skillets, most useful.  I'll add Victor to my list to collect.  I'll probably skip the Wapak, I am not sure how great the quality is on their stuff, I've heard mixed opinions.

This heat ring thing...  Seems I remember from high school science something about the three forms of heat transfer, convective, conductive, and radiation.  It seems to me that it would be very logical to put heat rings on the bottom of pans to prevent hot spots that would be created by direct conductive contact with the heat source.  By putting in a heat ring (theoretically for a flat stove surface) you would add a small amount of space for convection, allowing for the equlization of heat across the bottom of the pan, and the reduction/prevention of hot spots.  Of course that is moot on my gas range, but I prefer the ones with heat rings anyways, it's a cosmetic thing.

This economy line thing is still a thing in business today.  Wustof and Henckel both produce multiple grades of knives from the very cheap to the very expensive. Toyota has both the Lexus and the Scion line of vehicles.  It allows you to capitalize on channel and manufacturing while extending your reach to new consumer segments without diluting your brand.

[Greg Stahl]

Alan,
How about the recipe, when you get it for the site?  TIA, greg

[Steve_Stephens]

This heat ring thing...  Seems I remember from high school science something about the three forms of heat transfer, convective, conductive, and radiation.  It seems to me that it would be very logical to put heat rings on the bottom of pans to prevent hot spots that would be created by direct conductive contact with the heat source.  By putting in a heat ring (theoretically for a flat stove surface) you would add a small amount of space for convection, allowing for the equlization of heat across the bottom of the pan, and the reduction/prevention of hot spots.  Of course that is moot on my gas range, but I prefer the ones with heat rings anyways, it's a cosmetic thing.

Alan,
I  think that's it exactly.  While the stovetops of old were pretty flat when new, they did warp some over time and weren't perfectly flat when new due partially to the many different plates that made up the top surface of a stove.  Even a very small contact patch, or several, would create hot areas on the pan's surface.  By raising the bottom slightly about 1/16" it would give convective heat transfer only, resulting in more even cooking surface temperatures.  Smooth bottom pans probably came into being when gas ranges started to be in the majority.  Lodge never made the change from heat rims to smooth bottoms.
Steve

[awdye]

Greg,

Will do!

[speediebean]

Lodge never made the change from heat rims to smooth bottoms

Forgive me appearing stupid  on these matters, but, is that a bad thing!?   (Hey, the only dumb question is the one ya don't ask, right?)    If it is a bad thing, then please explain why?

[Steve_Stephens]

Heat rings on a skillet can be a minor nuisance on electric stove burners since the pan doesn't sit flat on the burner.  But it's only minor.  You can almost disregard whether a pan has a heat ring or not.  Sometimes the value of a pan with a heat ring is WAY more than one without but that doesn't meat a heat ring is more desireable for cooking but that a particular variation with a heat ring might be very scarce.  Some sizes/variations of smooth bottom pans are, likewise, scarce and more pricey.

Get yourself a copy of The Book of Griswold & Wagner by Smith and Wafford (blue book) and read that real well.  You will learn a lot.  Book is available from many bookstores plus from several of the links to the left (some at a nice discount).

Steve

[speediebean]

You're talking to a lady who lives to read, I'll do just that, thank you kindly sir!

The 'Baby' that I have now (so far, heh heh)  is an acceptably 10", 3" deep Lodge, and that's about all I know about her, except that she was already seasoned when I got her, and I got her at a True Value for about $25, if that says anything.  To you gurus, I guess that says a lot more than it does to me.   I suppose I do have loads more to learn, huh?

[Greg Stahl]

We are all still learning.  There is just too much too know in this hobby