Dating early "ERIE" skillets

[Steve_Stephens]

(This is meant as a reply to post No.46 here-
http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Price;action=display;num=1099703627;start=45#45
but I decided to make it a new topic)

The first series of Erie skillets have a "scoop" handle, see blue book pg.15 bottom right No.11.  Note scooped out bottom of handle.   Spider on same page is second series Erie skillet.  Note reinforcing on skillet wall where handle attaches and what the underside of the handle looks like  No 'scoop'.  Reinforcing on skillet wall at handle attachment can also be on some first series but will be "anthill" or rounded shaped instead of the curvy triangular which is the later and more common reinforcing.  

Pg. 16 top left No. 8 skillet is first series with handle reinforcement and scoop handle.  Note that No.5 next to it also has what looks like the scoop handle but it is different and not as scooped out.   No.8 in middle of page is series 2-1/2 (or 3--we don't have these series pinned down very exactly) and has the pattern number.  I think it is these pans that are like series 2 but are more substantial in construction; still a very nice series and has the reinforced top rim.  Later series also have a reinforced top rim as do probably all Griswold skillets but the reinforcing is not DISTINCT but smoothed out or tapered instead of square shouldered.

I don't agree with dating in most books and would like to know how those dates were arrived at.  I do know from a Selden & Griswold catalog that they were making a FULL line of pieces in 1883 including skillets sizes 7-12.  The 6 came with series 2 and the 5 came very late or the last series.

Since pattern numbers probably started c.1891 (there are a few 1891 patented ERIE bowls such as Yankee Bowls that do not have a pattern number but most do so that would indicate to me that p/n's were started on the bowls c.1891-92.  Were the skillets started the same time or earlier or later?  Who knows but let's assume they were started close in time.  The first Griswold cookware was made in (who the hell knows?) I would say c. 1879 with Griswold's first (was it the first?) 1880 patented waffle iron.  Assumptions are dangerous but what else do we have to go by?

I would say series 1 skillets were made c.1880+ to c.1886 and series 2 from c.1886 to 1891.   Pure "educated" guess on my part and I open up the discussion for better dating if possible.  Looking at the number of skillets we see from series 1 and 2 and later series I think this gives an appropriate number of years for those two series of skillets to be made.  The water remains muddy on dating but this is my best guesstimate to date.  I've been unable to find anyone who can give information for better or closer dating and this may be the best we will ever be able to do.

Steve

[Greg Stahl]

Steve,

Can you pull together some pix for this?  We seem to talk about this a lot and I believe we should have a pictorial of these ERIE series and I'll put it up on the WAGS members side of the FORUM.  It would be a good reference.

[C. Perry Rapier]

Steve, thank you very much for your valuable insight. It helps to unmuddy some of the water. The mysteries of this company is part of the intrigue. I am taking on looking into the 1938 labor strike at Griswold. I am a student of Organized Labor and a labor student to boot. I think it would be interesting to see what some of the worker demands were and how all of this played into Griswolds history. I also think it will give us more insight as to what was actually going on inside the plant. I mean we know they made cast iron. Also Greg, I think your idea of listing the ERIE prgression in terms of what they looked like is a good idea and it will be very helpful to use as a reference as we discuss this issue. Thank you both for all that you do.

[gt]

If it helps anyone, I believe this is a series 2 1/2 or 3 (Steve, right or wrong?)

http://home.comcast.net/~gtaylor408/000977.jpg

[moosejaw]

Great info Steve.  Thanks for taking the time to post all of this.

[Steve_Stephens]

To y'all,
I could post photos but haven't yet mastered or even tried to get photos from my camera to the computer.  Geesh, how long should it take?  Get going with this Steve.  But I don't even have many Erie skillets anymore to photograph.  Maybe some photos can be pulled off ebay and I can do that and may have a number of them already.  Will have to check on that.

Gary,
Your posted link shows what could be a series 2 with p/n OR a series 2-1/2 (we shouldn't have half series).  What I am temporarily calling series 2-1/2 is series 2 with a pattern number AND heavier construction.  You have to see one of these in your hands to see the difference as it is quite noticeable but not that big of a difference either.  Make sense of that?  Good photo, though, showing the reinforced rim and handle attachment.  

John Madole from California is (or could be) your ERIE skillet expert but he isn't involved to my knowledge in any club.  He probably has most all of the ERIE skillet variations and would be the person to catagorize the ERIE skillets if anyone can do it.  If someone could get him to join we might have a great resource but good luck on that.  He won't communicate with me for some unknown (to me) reason.

Steve

[gt]

Steve,

If it helps any, my skillet in the above picture weights 73.5 oz. and the side wall thickness just under reinforced rim is .085 to .090 inches - Gary

[Steve_Stephens]

Steve,

If it helps any, my skillet in the above picture weights 73.5 oz. and the side wall thickness just under reinforced rim is .085 to .090 inches - Gary

Gary, please, don't get into grams and thousandths of an inch.  Griswold products were not made with that much accuracy but some people seem to think that such exact measurements mean a lot.  I've found a quarter pound or even a half pound difference between skillets that look exactly the same.

I'll weigh my pans on my old produce scale to about 1/16 lb but that's as close as I'll get.  Measure to no better than 1/32" should be plenty good enough.  To tell a series 2 from a series 2-1/2 from series 3 you would have to have them in front of you to compare.  There really isn't a series 2-1/2 (or probably shouldn't be one).  Nobody has written up a good and complete article on ERIE skillets and series but there must be about 5-6 somewhat distinct series with many pans that overlap a series.  An amazing amount of minor variations among the Erie pans--and later Griswold's, too.

I've sold a number of my ERIE skillets so no longer have many to refer to.  Wish I had access to John M's collection.  It must be fun to sit there an compare several hundred Erie skillets.  He used to bring some by but I've never seen his whole collection.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

John,
I haven't talked to John M. in about two years so don't know what he has been up to.   His phone number is in the phone book if you need me to look it up.  Maybe you can get him to help us out some.  I don't know if he ever wrote anything for Dave but do know he has written up some info, some of which I have.  If you do call him and get his wife on the phone don't mention anything about iron cookware, etc.  I don't remember what times I used to phone him.  He's definitely Mr. ERIE skillet of the world.
Steve