Author Topic: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?  (Read 5620 times)

Carol

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What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« on: March 26, 2005, 06:02:21 PM »
I see this referred to all the time, and have seen photos with ghost marks.  My recall may not be right, but it seems once or twice it was a ghost mark of a different foundry than who the pan was made by.  But that doesn't sound right.

Anyone who feels like 'splaining ghost marks would be appreciated.
Carol

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2005, 06:18:48 PM »
Ghost marks are the reminants of the markings from a previously used pattern that has been modified and made to make another type of marking.  Griswold skillets, particularly the slant TM ERIE skillets have ghost marks for GRISWOLD'S ERIE on them.  

Ghost marks are great conversation pieces and really 'cool' to find.

Sounds like we need a GHOST MARKS for a FAQ link, as it is a neat subject.  Anyone want to take it up?
"NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!" Alice Cooper.

Carol

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2005, 07:11:41 PM »
I think that's a great idea Greg.  I haven't been on a cast iron website that particularly mentions them, let alone explains them or shows photos of them.

Further questions.  How does the ghost mark remain if they revise the casting mold?  Also, not knowing the casting process, still I can see how a ghost mark would be where the revised portion used to be.  But how is it that there are ghost marks in odd places elsewhere on a pan?  I'm almost positive I've seen that somewhere.

Carol

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2005, 07:13:38 PM »
Plus, what I've read says they had to make a new mold for each pan, hence pattern makers' little marks.  I must have that wrong because it seems that would take forever (one mold per pan?) but if that's the case, then I doubly don't understand how a ghost mark would appear from an old mold.  I must have that wrong.

Steve_Stephens

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2005, 08:14:22 PM »
Somebody posted a link to an interesting site that showed how iron castings were made.  Anyone remember that?  I think it was in the past two months or so.  Carol  needs to look over that info.  If it can be found might be a good thing to add to our Educational Information box.

Carol,
A PATTERN for a particular piece of iron will be used to make a MOLD out of sand for each piece that is cast by pouring molten iron into that one mold.  Many molds are lined up at a time and poured full of iron, let cool, and the sand broken away from the piece which is still in a very rough state.  After grinding, cleaning, etc. it is ready for us collectors.

The casting sand is packed around the pattern.  It usually takes a top and bottom half to make up the full mold.  If you search the net for iron casting techniques or whatever, you should be able to find some good information.

If some of the existing markings on the pattern are filled in with a substance (lead?, I'm not sure what was used) then new markings can be inscribed on the pattern (like a new trademark, etc.) and the pattern continued to be used on the revised piece.  After many times of having casting sand packed around the pattern it would seem that the filling material, if softer than the pattern itself, could slowly wear away leaving a ghost mark with the mark getting slightly stronger as the pattern was used more and more.  That's my idea on how ghost marks get on pieces.  I have seen a piece with three different company names on it.  It may have been a Wapak piece with something like Tecumseh and Erie both as ghost marks.  I don't have an explaination how two ghost marks can get on a piece unless patterns were sent, lent, or sold from company to company.  I think that is a very good possibility as patterns got old or obsolete.

Steve

Carol

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2005, 07:26:57 AM »
Okay, Steve, that makes it a little clearer.  Are pieces with ghost marks something that makes a pan more (or less) collectible?

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2005, 08:45:54 AM »
One would think it would increase the value but that is not the case.  I can't think of a single example that one piece with a ghost mark is worth more than the original.
"NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!" Alice Cooper.

Carol

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2005, 10:42:15 AM »
Kind of interesting looking tho.

Steve_Stephens

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Re: What's the meaning of a ghost mark?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2005, 01:47:05 PM »
Quote
One would think it would increase the value but that is not the case.  I can't think of a single example that one piece with a ghost mark is worth more than the original.

I agree with Greg.  Some people may pay more for a ghost but, for the most part, I think it just adds interest.  In a set, a ghost mark on only one pan might make the set less desireable.  Ghosts are common enough that the value doesn't increase because of it.

I had two identical Favorite No.2 popover pans (just like Griswold's No.10) with one of them having no ghost and the other a very strong GRISWOLD ghost.

Steve