Author Topic: BSR Red Mountain correct?  (Read 2098 times)

Offline Jared Spencer

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BSR Red Mountain correct?
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:21:45 PM »
Hello all, and thanks for any insight in advance. I know that these pieces are all BSR and would technically be called Red Mountain, but I am interested in the older, pre-automation stuff, and you guys have the expertise into if these fall into that category and if they are matching sets. I know the skillet is pre-automation, but unsure about the saucepan and lids.

Thanks! I've linked to an imgur album with the images, but included a couple examples of the saucepan here as well.

https://imgur.com/a/xjZRZYc
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 06:22:19 PM by JaredS »

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 09:27:03 PM »
Yes Jared, both pieces appear to be ASW/BSR Red Mountain Era.  :)

Update to this answer, 10/14/2023...

This is Century Era, circa 1956/55 to 1964.... as the design changed sometime during this time frame... See post below
« Last Edit: October 14, 2023, 02:54:23 PM by Cheryl Watson »

Offline Jared Spencer

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 03:09:58 PM »
Awesome! Is there any known explanation for the strange numbers on the saucepan lid? 3-4 is just weird. Pan and lid cost me less than $28—seem a reasonable price for the pair?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 03:10:36 PM by JaredS »

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 04:20:22 PM »
Yes, that was a fair price if no cracks, chips, etc.

With ASW/BSR, the lids were made to fit multiple pieces.

Your pan is actually NOT a Saucepan, it is called a Stew Pan.

And now I have to back track... because the Skillet is Red Mountain era,

But the Stew Pan is Century Era, as during the Red Mountain Era they did not produce a 2 Qt. Size...
and yours does not have a tab on the side...  Which pushes it solidly into the Century Era....

The 1954 Catalog shows the 2 qt Stew Pan, with a tab on one side... the no tab style appeared sometime between 1955 and 1966....

The 3/4 lid would have also fit another product with a 3 or 4 quart capacity... 

Offline Jared Spencer

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 11:36:48 PM »
Cheryl, this is very interesting. I've been going through the catalogues posted in the stickies. The whole thing is quite confusing. I've never seen a piece that looks like the image of the sauce pan. The lid I have clearly goes with the 3 and 4 sauce pan though. The measured diameter for these are identical and matches the diameter of my lid. I guess I'm going to have to be on a lookout for one of these saucepans—I expect that might take a while!

As for the 2 qt pan itself, it's very confusing. The images with the helper tab aren't convincing to me; I don't think a helper tab on the image means that all the various sizes have this feature, much like some skillets have helper tabs and others do not but both aren't shown in the catalogue. I've never seen a 2 qt stew pan with either a helper tab or a pour spout. The 2 qt stew pot mentioned in the '54 Century catalogue claims an 8" diameter for the pan, and that's much larger than the pan I have, by over an inch. Also, the claimed wight with a lid is 6 lbs for the 2 qt stew pot, and mine is less than 5 lbs with the lid. This discrepancy is much larger than for my skillet, which only misses the claimed weight by about an ounce.

Also, although none of the Red Mountain catalogues show a 2 qt stew pot in them, the '39–'41 ASW price list with the 3839 catalogue DOES list a 2 qt stew pot with a cover at a price of $1.02. This price is different than for the 2 qt sauce pan ($1.32), so its not a misprint, I think. This is clearly Red Mountain. Given that BSR used the same lid for multiple pans, it may be that this stew pot actually does go with this lid.

Actually, I am not even convinced that the stew pot IS BSR. Didn't Lodge make a sauce pan that looks nearly identical?

At this point my guess is that it is BSR, that it is early Red Mountain, and is the pan mentioned in the '41 ASW price list catalogue. BSR typically didn't redesign their pans often; with the exception of a few size changes that you've noted before their skillets were essentially the same with different style fonts for most of their existence. I doubt they had a 2 qt stew pot that had a helper handled and pour spout then eliminated those features for the Century series in the 2 qt. pan but kept them in the 3 qt pan. . As I said, I think that this pan was the 2 qt stew pot mentioned in the '41 price list and that later the 2 qt was added to the catalogue itself, but had an error in the printing on the diameter of the pot—it's worth noting that only the '54 Century catalogue mentions the diameter; subsequent catalogues only give the weight. Nevertheless, it is not very clear!

Are there other price lists available for other Red Mountain era catalogues, or is the one posted in the sticky the only one known? Also, are there any known examples of the "sauce pans" from the Red Mountain catalogues? I'd like to see one to have a better idea for what I should be searching.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:44:33 PM by JaredS »

Offline Jared Spencer

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 12:14:31 AM »
Hah! And then there is this!

http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1403738648/12#12

So pretty much disregard all things said in the last post. Can you date the timeframe of the label? And are we sure the label goes with that pan?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 12:24:49 AM by JaredS »

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 12:28:59 AM »
Difference to be noted... Your Stew pan has a HR.... the one pictured does not, it is smooth bottom....

Stew pans can cause one's eyes to become crossed! 

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 12:49:38 AM »
While the 1941 Pricelist does show a 2Qt. Stew PAN, those would have had the Tab on one side. Yours does not.

Lodge's Stew Pans were marked differently.

There is a large gap in currently known to exist catalogs... from 1942 to 1953.

All answers will not yet be known.

Below is a true BSR Sauce Pan...

I was the first one to discover and Identify the ASW/BSR Sauce Pan....




Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 01:14:40 AM »
Your 2 Qt Stew Pan would not be Early Red Mountain for several reasons:

1.   1934 would be 'Early' Red Mountain

2.  If your Stew Pan were produced in the Red Mountain era of 1942, it would have:

a.  A Tab on the Side

b.  MARKINGS on the Bottom such as shown below with the 3 Quart Size....

I have not updated my tracking spreadsheets for about 18 months, so thanks for seeing that addition to the 1941 Price Sheet!

That catalog has not yet been input into my tracking sheets (Huge Database) yet, as we had a rash of catalogs discovered and donated with in a short period of time, and it is a MAMMOTH task, from which I have been taking a break from for the past 18 months.

There is a bit more information on the WAGS Member ASW/BSR Board and our Foundry List....

And a Whole Lot more on my Computer awaiting analysis and upload to this Forum.

And more information still being found (I have some new/old original paper too!).

And some brand new information I was just made aware of 2 hours ago!   



« Last Edit: August 14, 2024, 09:37:51 PM by Cheryl Watson »

Offline Jared Spencer

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Re: BSR Red Mountain correct?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 09:11:12 AM »
Yes, I'm in agreement that this pan was produced sometime in the decade after 1955. I still have a a couple of questions for you though. Is the lid correct for the pan? I've seen examples (like the one you posted) of the two together and so I assume that the lid was originally designed for the 3- or 4-qt sauce pan but re-appropriated for use with this stew pan?

Why are you certain the Red Mountain 2-qt pan would have had the helper tab? It seems like an unnecessary feature for a pan of that size. Is there an extant example?

Finally, are the heat-ring details perhaps indicative of the hand-molded vs. automated genesis of the pan? I've attached three examples: My hand-molded RM #8, my post automation "RM" #8, and the stew pan in question. The heat ring on the older skillet and on this pan are both finer, with near 90º angles. The heat ring on the automated piece is more of a heat hump. I believe most of the post-automation pieces I've handled have this same kind of less precise heat ring. As a note, the sauce pan you posted has a similarly "sharp" heat ring. Beautiful piece, by the way! Now I know what I need to look for!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 09:53:59 AM by JaredS »