CI Cleanup Work Area

[gt]

Lee, I know it's not not something you run into every day, but a 15.5 gal. SS beer keg would make a nice deep container for boiling your lye.  I found one of these this summer for free and have since seen two sell for $4 each.

[Steve_Stephens]

Lee, I wouldn't bother boiling the lye mix but do about 150 to 180 and the cleaning will be a LOT faster than at room temp.  I don't think the boiling action will help much in the cleaning.  A friend used to have a "hot tank" with his lye that was used to boil radiators before he got it.  It was electric heated and cleaned his pots in an hour or so.

Steve

[miniwoodworker]

Gary, thanks for the tip. You know, it's strange the things that I look for now that I've found this forum.  :)

Thanks, Steve for that background info. It's a good to know. No point in wasting propane if it doesn't really do any good. Need it more, later, for seasoning.

Lee

[Tom Neitzel]

The caustic soda (lye) hot tank was pretty much a fixture in automotive/truck repair shops years ago.  My dad's shop had one that was heated by steam coils.  You would clean items, then rinse off with a steam cleaning wand.  It was near boiling and cleaned items very quickly.  The heat really speeds it up.  If you do try heating it, be very careful.  You can get burns from not only from the lye, but the hot water too.  Ideally rubber gloves, rubber apron and a face shield.   As an indestructable kid my safety equipment consisted of a t-shirt, jeans, tennis shoes and face shield.  Was very lucky growing up.

I saw Target closing out turkey fryers at $35 earlier this week.

tom

[gt]

So Tom, back in my Hot Rodding days when we sent an engine block to a machine shop for work they would always "boil it out" first.  So was "boiling it out" putting it in a hot lye bath?  I always wondered what they used but never thought to ask.

[Tom Neitzel]

Yes, Gary, as far as I know anyway.  They went away for a couple of reasons.  First, EPA related to keep the grease and heavy metals out of the wastewater, and second, more aluminum used in engine parts.  Would make for an unhappy customer to get your aluminum block back as a bucket of scum.  I think they mainly use ovens and glass beads to clean now.  It sure worked well for cleaning steel and iron parts.

The more I think about it the more I may go get one of the Turkey Fryers.

Tom

[Steve_Stephens]

I am under the impression that lye does not "eat" mineral oils and, if so, something other than lye was probably used to clean engine blocks.  There are (or used to be) chemicals that will clean oils and rust from iron I think.  If lye does not eat mineral oils then why would it be used to clean radiators which would get blocked by oils (is this right?) that get into the cooling system from the water pump leaking or other sources from the engine leaking?

Steve

[miniwoodworker]

Steve, I'm speculating here......

The water itself caused mineral deposits to form in the radiator. Same way they'll build up in an old kettle, or in the hot water lines in today's homes. If memory serves, this is a problem for water heaters.

Again, just speculating.....

Lee

[Tom Neitzel]

It really is caustic soda (lye) that was in the hot tanks.  Generally more concentrated than we work with.  It will "eat" just about anything organic you can put in it; oil, grease, rubber, skin.  Does well at dissolving aluminum, zinc and even titanium.  It will even etch glass if left long enough.  It doesn't attack copper much though (that would include brass, a copper alloy).

Lee's right about the radiator deposits.  They mainly come from the water in the radiator - scale, rust, and sealants people put in (GM sells a sealant that is mainly walnut shell and tumeric.  It works pretty well).  And it is like the scale you see in household hot water pipes.  That's one reason plain tap water, in an ideal world, shouldn't be used in the radiator, but everyone does it.  The modern coolants have additives to help retard deposit formation.  When radiators were still had brass tanks and copper cores (my 49 pickup does)  and you could still solder them to repair, the hot tank would clean them right up, nice and shiny.

This really hasn't been possible anymore for automobiles since most radiators now have aluminum cores, plastic tanks and you repair them with a hot melt glue gun, if you can at all.

I was trying to find a nice Google link, but they all assume you are a chemist and not much use.  Here's a snip listing some of the other uses for lye (caustic soda or sodium hydroxide).

Food uses of lye include washing or chemical peeling of fruits and vegetables, chocolate and cocoa processing, caramel color production, poultry scalding, soft drink processing, and thickening ice cream. Olives are often soaked in lye to soften them, while pretzels and German lye rolls are glazed with a lye solution before baking to make them crisp.

Lye is used to make the Scandinavian delicacy known as lutefisk (from lutfisk, "lye fish"). Hominy is dried maize (corn) kernels reconstituted by soaking in lye-water. Sodium hydroxide is also the chemical that causes gelling of egg whites in the production of Century eggs.

I know there's been some discussion about how hard it is to remove mineral oil coatings to reseason a pan, but I've never tried so I don't know if it would really resist the concentrated lye and heat.  I suspect not.  Cold and less concentrated, maybe it would be slow to dissolve.

Tom

[Steve_Stephens]

 It (lye) will "eat" just about anything organic you can put in it; oil, grease, rubber, skin. When radiators were still had brass tanks and copper cores (my 49 pickup does)  and you could still solder them to repair, the hot tank would clean them right up, nice and shiny.

... some of the other uses for lye (caustic soda or sodium hydroxide).

Food uses of lye include ... thickening ice cream...Olives are often soaked in lye to soften them, while pretzels and German lye rolls are glazed with a lye solution before baking to make them crisp.

I know there's been some discussion about how hard it is to remove mineral oil coatings to reseason a pan, but I've never tried so I don't know if it would really resist the concentrated lye and heat.

Tom

Thanks Tom and Lee for some clarifications.  Mineral oils, being non-organic, may not be affected by lye but I do still wonder as some have said that they remove mineral oil with lye.  It doesn't seem to work for me with the piece coming out of the lye feeling quite greasy still.   I guess we could always season with Castrol "R" and that would be readily removable and we could use it in our cars, too.  And that great smell or castor oil!

"lye used to thicken ice cream"?   As a total lover of ice cream I should try using ice cream to dip my iron in.  After the cleaning I could refreeze the ice cream and eat it.  The brown crud from the pans might not even be in evidence if I used chocolate ice cream.

Still a lot of unanswered questions about lye but I do know how to use it to clean my iron and that's really all I need to know.  Perry said he sent me a SS barrel so, if it ever arrives (tomorrow?) I can dispense with my lye method and get into the new century.

Steve

[miniwoodworker]

Steve, here's an experiment you may want to try on a throw-away piece first. (I haven't tried it, yet.) When you encounter that greasy mineral oil film, dry the piece first. Then, give it a wash in mineral spirits. I'd use plain steel wool (no soap) for this step. Rinse with clean spirits.

Caution: Do this in a well ventilated area away from any pilot lights or other sources of ignition. Follow all the precautions on the container.

Follow this with a hot water wash with SOS soap pads to remove the solvent.

Note: Mineral spirits can be used over and over again. I wouldn't mix this use with any other, however, to prevent contamination of the spirits with other materials. Pour the used spirits in a clean jar and cap. In time, most of the suspended materials will settle to the bottom. Decant, if you wish. Then, let the remainder of the solvent in the jar evaporate, in a safe place, before, discarding the residue.

FWIW, I've used MS, as a solvent, in many situations in conjunction with woodworking. But, haven't within the context of this thread. If you do try it, please let me know how it turns out. I'm planning to try it as soon as I get an experimental piece.

Lee

[Ellis Morehead]

Ok, I finally have to ask, what does FWIW stand for?
Cheers

[miniwoodworker]

FWIW = For Whatever It's Worth
BTW = By the way

Those are the two that I probably use most often.

Oh, one more....

YMMV = your milage may vary  :)

Lee

[Steve_Stephens]

Most of what comes out of my lye bath gets wire brushed afterwards and the mineral oil seems to get "worn away" during the brushing and subsequent scrubbing with Comet.  Then I just veggie oil and can't tell the difference between that piece and one that had been coated with veggie oil.

I also recycle paint thinner in my settling jars.  Much better for the world.  Never really occured to me to wash off mineral oil with mineral sprits but it should work just fine.  Even gasoline would work but I value my life and house too much to try that.

Steve