Can't get skillet to turn black

[Carolyn Shlafer]

I'm starting to get frustrated.  Seems I can never get past a very dark brown when re-seasoning a pan starting from bare iron.  I repeat the seasoning steps multiple times, and it turns darker to be sure, but never black -- just dark brown.  I do the steps almost exactly as are recommended on this website ("Seasoning Cast Iron"), and this creates a beautiful, non-stick surface.  A DARK BROWN non-stick surface.  So what, if anything, am I doing wrong???

[Roger Barfield]

Ok, now turn that smiley frown upside down.  ;D   The color it ends up is related to how high the temp is.  Just put your brown pans in the oven and heat them up to 450 or so for an hour and shut the oven off and let it cool.  They should turn black.

[Carolyn Shlafer]

Thanks for your input, Roger, and for your words of encouragement.  You may be surprised to know that I've actually been doing just what you suggest, even leaving the pan/pans in longer than an hour.  Sometimes I've even left them in a 500-degree oven for a few hours.  Maybe they just need more carbon layers burned on with more time in more heat?  What do you think?

In addition to the WAGS consensus about how to season cast iron, I found one other opinion last year when I was doing the initial research on this subject that made some sense.  Here's the link, to the forum of a site called Chowhound.  The post that's dated Aug 23, 2007, 2:30PM, by acmorris, is the pertinent section.  I'd be interested to hear your opinion, or any WAGS member's opinion, of this person's ideas?

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/433869#2875040

Sorry so many questions, but this is all still pretty new to me...

 :-/

[Roger Barfield]

The thing about seasoning is to find a method that works for you.  If you ask 10 people, I bet you get 10 different answers on how they season cast iron.  

When you say up above that you do the steps almost exactly as it says here, perhaps if you list exactly what you are doing that would help me know what to tell you.   The instructions up above do say they will give you a dark brown seasoning, which it sounds like is what you're getting.  That dark brown with time and use will end up with the black like you want.  I can tell you how I season, but it's not much different than up above.  I heat the bare iron to 450-500 on my gas grill for about 45 minutes to an hour until the metal turns darker and the color evens out.  I then take solid Crisco and one of those silicone basting brushes and go over the piece.  It does smoke and it's still hot at the time.  I then take wadded up paper towel and wipe the excess off the piece.  (note, I wear some serious oven mitts while doing all this)  I let it keep cooking at 450 and repeat every 30 minutes for 3-4 times until it looks the way I want.  After the last coat and waiting 30 minutes, I shut off the grill, leaving it closed and let the pieces cool inside.  

I have read the thread you post before and they sure feel strongly about what they do.  That's fine with me if that's what they want to do.  The one doing the sanding and stripping the preseasoned is just wasting time in my opinion.  I've seasoned their unseasoned cast iron and used the preseasoned as well.  The seasoning they do works just fine.  I just add to it by cooking on them.  The rust she mentioned came from her lye bath.   I assure you there's no rust on the pieces they season.   I watched them do it when we toured the foundry.  Those pieces have just been polished and are shiny when they get seasoned.  Anyway, like I say, whatever floats their boat.  

[maloney108]

Hi Carolyn,

My freshly seasoned pans come out dark brownish too, but I just use them and they turn black on their own schedule.  Heating the clean bare metal to 400 degrees or so before seasoning helps the darkening.  I'm a one coat Crisco seasoner - in my hands, more coats just make for a rubbery season that causes problems.  The first few times I use a freshly seasoned piece, it's either with scrambled eggs or cornbread or something high in protein or fat.  I've found that bacon is tough on a freshly seasoned pan (I think it's the sugar in it). After each use, I do rub the thinnest possible film of veg oil on it inside and out while still hot.

I will add, that the seasoning is not simply carbon - it's more like a polymer of the various fat molecules linking together and to the iron.  

As others have told you, keep trying until you find something that works for you - then you'll be giving advice to the newbies!

[Carolyn Shlafer]

Hey, you guys are the BEST!!!  I'm so relieved...  You two really confirm my suspicions that it's all just a matter of time, and that I probably just need to keep doing what I'm doing.

It's great to get a description of your exact technique, Roger, because it's almost identical to mine.  I mean, about the only differences are that
(1) I use lard--purified, clean white stuff from the supermarket that I have on hand for making pie crusts--instead of Crisco;
(2) I don't use a brush to apply it, instead I melt a small amount of frozen lard onto the very hot metal surface for a second or two; and
(3) I use both a cloth and paper towels to even and thin out each layer of lard as I apply it.

Jim, your comments about how you use your pans are really helpful, as well as encouraging.  Makes me realize I don't have to wait so long before actually starting to use my beautiful new/old Griswolds.  And I appreciate the science comment on the composition of the seasoning layers; I just thought of it as carbonized fat.  Who knew???

Anyway, thank you, thank you, thank you!  I knew I wouldn't regret that membership fee!

[livens]

I dont have much to add, but here goes. I notice that on my older griswold/wagner pans they come out brown after seasoning and turn black after a few months of use. My newer iron, most likely chinese made, turns black after the first seasoning. And I strip/clean and seasoned both types exactly the same way.

I actually like the dark brown color better and I dont see any difference in performance between the black and brown colors.

[C. Perry Rapier]

I dont have much to add, but here goes. I notice that on my older griswold/wagner pans they come out brown after seasoning and turn black after a few months of use. My newer iron, most likely chinese made, turns black after the first seasoning. And I strip/clean and seasoned both types exactly the same way.

I actually like the dark brown color better and I dont see any difference in performance between the black and brown colors.

I agree with you Jeremy, I don't see any difference either.

[C. Perry Rapier]

Anyway, thank you, thank you, thank you!  I knew I wouldn't regret that membership fee!

Hello Carolyn, glad you think its a good deal on the membersip fee. And again, its good to have you. ;)

[fatfutures]

Carolyn, you say you "thin out' each layer of fat... Are you removing ALL the excess before placing in the oven? By all, I mean... once you think you've wiped it all off... wipe it again.

I never have to use that high of an oven temp to get my pieces black.

I also wonder if the lard affects the color in some way. A while back I noticed some of my pieces were kinda brown (I thought it was rust, which really freaked me out! NO RUST ALLOWED!) I came to realize that my Crisco had gone bad! Smelled fine but it had become kinda sticky and gummy.

Anyway... just more info to confuse you further.

[Carolyn Shlafer]

I notice that on my older griwsold/wagoneer pans they come out brown after seasoning and turn black after a few months of use.

That's encouraging, Jeremy.  I admit to having a preference for the deep black look.  However, the quality of the re-seasoning on my still-dark-brown pans seems fine.

Hello Carolyn, glad you think its a good deal on the membersip fee. And again, its good to have you.

My remark about the fee was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, Perry!!!  The great info and tips I got from this forum were already helping me tremendously long before I took the plunge.  Thanks again for the welcome!

Carolyn, you say you "thin out' each layer of fat... Are you removing ALL the excess before placing in the oven? By all, I mean... once you think you've wiped it all off... wipe it again......
I never have to use that high of an oven temp to get my pieces black.....I also wonder if the lard affects the color in some way.

Michelle, you make some great points--thank you!  Yup, I go nuts wiping the hot metal with either a cloth or a handful of paper towel until it's uniformly shiny, but not "wet" looking.  The reason I know to do this is from having had the fat pool and create spots when I didn't wipe enough off.  The high temp (500 degrees) was just an attempt to get the pans to turn black; I see now that the color will arrive on its own with usage, so I won't bother with that anymore.  As for lard vs. Crisco, I've used lard because (a) I have it around for pies, and (b) it's good quality (rendered, purified, colorless, odorless) and natural, and (c) I have a "thing" about hydrogenated fats so I never use Crisco for cooking or baking.  Which is not to say I would have a problem with using it for seasoning if I needed to!  Maybe I'll give it a try anyway...

Thanks again to all of you for your invaluable help!

[maloney108]

Carolyn,

For most of the time cast iron was in existence, lard or other animal fat was used to season it, so why change.  Most of us use Crisco because it's readily available, rather than because it's better.

Another science bit, if you use Crisco and season a pan right, none of the hydrogenated oil gets into your food, in fact I'd bet that it has undergone quite a chemical change during the seasoning process.

[Carolyn Shlafer]

Another science bit, if you use Crisco and season a pan right, none of the hydrogenated oil gets into your food, in fact I'd bet that it has undergone quite a chemical change during the seasoning process.

Jim, I'd already gathered that; that's why I wouldn't really mind using it if I thought it would improve the results.  It's just that I don't keep it around since I don't normally use it.  My hangup about vegetable shortening is based partly on how it's processed in the body and partly how I grew up.  Throughout my childhood, I ate cookies made with Crisco and spread margarine on my toast and corn-on-the-cob.  I don't think I knew what butter tasted like till I was in college...

 ::)

[Jeff Friend]

I agree with what Jim is saying about what happens to oils during seasoning.  The post on chowhounds is incorrect in stating that you are forming a carbon layer.  My theory is that seasoning is a matrix of polymerized fats for the most part, with smaller amounts of partially burned proteins and sugars, starch, etc.  If it was just carbon, lye wouldn't remove it because sodium hydroxide doesn't react with carbon.  Carbon is pretty inert stuff - that is why they use carbon and graphite in a lot of chemical processes.

Carolyn, my advice is to season your "user" pans with use.  I have a No. 5 skillet that gets regular use in making cornbread and it has the blackest, smoothest seasoning you will ever see.  And I never followed any procedure to seasoned that pan.

Good luck!

Jeff

[Carolyn Shlafer]

Jeff, your and Jim's comments make a lot of sense; the composition of the seasoning layers would have to be more complex on the molecular level than just carbon.  That being about the extent of my understanding of biochemistry, I'll take your other scientific details on faith...

I believe you about everyday use being the best "seasoner" of all -- and it's a lot more fun, besides!

Thanks again for your great input.    :)

[andrewasl]

I wonder if it has something to do with it being in a gas stove or electric ?
The pans that  I cooked with on my old gas range seemed to turn black a lot faster than the ones that I cook with now on the electric range. Maybe the gas oven or grill allows it turn black faster? Also, the pans that I put in the electric oven didn't turn black...just a dark golden brown color.

[Chub]

1. Be careful of what you absorb on Chowhound. There is a lot of misinformation on there that people swear as gospel and can be quite convincing. Better to stay with the pro's like WAGS and IDOS.

2. An electric oven should not affect the seasoning burn. All my CI is seasoned in an electric oven @ 500 degrees and come out slick and black as coal.


  http://forums.idos.org/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=16310


Otis "Chub" Campbell

[Jesse and Kim Dunfee]

I might as well put my 2 cents in here also....... ;D
I do mine EXACTLY like Roger does. I have been doing quite a bit of cleaning and seasoning lately and have made an observation. When I do the heating of the bare iron to "even out" the color it seems that the older skillets get black and the newer (small Logo) stays a dark gray. And when seasoned those older skillets come out BLACK and the newer ones a beautiful dark brown. Either way it doesn't matter . There both seasoned :)

[Carolyn Shlafer]

Otis, I am wondering what you think of the methods described by a lot of the people on this forum--methods that do not involve heating a piece to 500 degrees when seasoning...?

In my newfound cast-iron pastime, I've been trying to follow the cleaning and seasoning instructions on the WAGS website, and to listen to  the helpful suggestions of the very experienced and knowledgeable WAGS members who post here.  They don't seem to emphasize extremely high temperatures, whereas, well...you do.  And I notice that your Dutch Oven website also has a 500 Degree Club.  Why is it so important to use such high heat, in your opinion?

Thanks in advance for your input, and thank you for posting here!
 :D

[Chub]

Carolyn
 I appreciate you asking for my thoughts on seasoning.
However I must disclose that my background is in dutch ovens and have only recently been getting interested in becoming a skillethead. But hey! Cast iron is cast iron wether it's round or flat.
I enjoy restoring  and seasoning cast iron more than cooking in it. However I do like to cook and will be preparing a four course traditional Polish meal on Saturday, all outside in cast iron. Us Dutchies tend to do that.

Anyway,  as far as cast iron knowledge was concerned, I had a brainless cranium full of mush when first getting into this sport. I followed a few old wives tales about cast iron that included seasoning @350, as recommended in the little booklet that comes with any Lodge product purchase. All that did was cause the cast iron to come out brown and sticky. But hey, if I cook in it every day for two years it'll eventually turn black, right?  Not good enough for me.

The second fallacy of advice given all over is that you should spread a light coat of oil on the piece in between uses in order to prevent rust. All that did was cause funny tasting food the next time it was used . I thought that this was just the flavor of dutch oven cast iron and I just had to get used to it. Can you spell RANCID OIL!

So being an anal-retentive, obsessive-compulsive, I was determined to find out how to get this thick black hard seasoning with wonderfully tasting food that I always heard about, because it wasn't happening for me!

Eventually this web site by Colleen Sloan was discovered:

http://www.logcabingrub.com/products/dutch-oven/dotips.html

Colleen Sloan is the matriarch of dutch oven cooking. As I found out later, she is quite a celebrity in the DO cult. She was kind enough to speak with me on the telephone and set me straight on the care and maintenance stuff.

#1) Season @ 500

#2) Don't store your pot with oil. Keep it dry. If it's seasoned, it won't rust. Food will taste better.

Now, you ask why season CI at high temperatures. Well, ya gotta burn the oil. Plain and simple. For example, refined corn oil has a smoke point of 450 degrees. If you season @ 350 you're gonna have a problem.

Roger said that if you ask 10 people how to season CI you'll get 10 different answers. This is true. The way he describes seasoning makes sense imho. He takes a hot skillet, burns oil of some persuasion on it, does it multiple times, and lets it cool slowly. Sounds good . This is easier to do with a skillet than a 22lb dutch oven. Since I don't care to handle hot iron  we just cover with a light coat of oil and "letter burn" in the oven for about an hour , then repeat a couple times. Result is the same. The "jist" (not a word) of this story is that the iron needs to be hotter than the smoke point of the oil.

So, when you read that some seasoning technique "turns the CI brown, but it will become black with use", it means that an incomplete initial  seasoning has been performed and the high temperatures of regular cooking will finish the seasoning process by completing the burning of the oil.

Smoke:
Colleen Sloan recommends to season outside due to smoke and fire risk. I can tell you that if a VERY LIGHT coat of oil is used, there is no risk of fire and little, if any, smoke. If you gotta lotta  smoke then yous gots too much oil.
Another factor in the amount of smoke that may be expierenced when seasoning iron is the quality of your oven. In our home we have a high-end (expensive) Lacanche stove/oven.  Never had one peep of smoke out of it. And I season like crazy. However, at work there is a cheap a$$  electric one that when used has seasoning fumes and smoke coming up out of the heating elements on top of the stove. I just turn on the fan. No big deal. Also, multiple coats of light oil is waaaay better than one seasoning with heavy oil slopped all over. That advice never changes.

Lastly, What type of oil to use ?
Without getting into a lot of organic chemisty mumbo-jumbo, I can tell you this:
We want our seasoning to last-right!
 We don't want entropy to rear it's ugly head. ( You can look up the word "entropy" yourself for full understanding)

So we want our seasoning to have a stable construct- right!.
Therefore, I think that it's best to go with a "fully hydrogenated" oil such as Crisco. Fully hydrogenated means that every carbon atom is fully attatched to as many hydrogen atoms that it can handle. There are no open areas in the chain of carbon atoms where a "free radical" can get in  to spoil the oil or kink up the carbon chain.

 It's best when the carbon chain is straight, like your dog's chain outside that's attatched to the water spigot. When the dog chain is straight, it works like it should and is less prone to breaking when Rover is tugging at it to get to the mailman. When your dog chain gets kinked, it's acting like an "unsaturated oil". This kinked chain is less stable. The dog chain is more likely to break at the kink. "Unsaturated means that the carbon chain has some open areas where there is no hydrogen atoms attatched. I won't get into cis and trans arrangements now, but these unsaturated oils are usually liquid at room temperature and are more prone to degradation, ie" becoming rancid and accumulating the funny smells in your pantry".
Fully hydrogenated oils are much more stable, have a longer shelf life, and are usually solid at room temp. This is Crisco.

So, I've experimented with seasoning techniques. Tried different kinds of oils at different temperatures. Oils such as Olive oil ( virgin, extra virgin, light, regular) , vegetable oil, canola oil, Crisco, peanut - the usual.  I've found that a very thin coat of any oil works well if the temp is high. The seasoning temperature is much more important than the type of oil used. But from an understanding of organic chemistry, I think that a fully hydrogenated oil is the way to go.

As far as temperature is concerned, I don't think that anything magical happens at 500 degrees. It's just that the oil needs to be fully burned and  five hunnert seems to do the job.
Just check out the dozens of testimonials on the IDOS site.
Try it-ya got nothin to lose!

It's now midnight. I'm going to put on the headphones and swill a few more beers while listening to some Emerson, Lake & Palmer tunes on Youtube.  Perry, they are not a rap band!   ;D

Otis "Chubby" Campbell