Flash Rust Syndrome

[Carolyn Shlafer]

Hello -- Haven't posted here in a while; life has been crazy here in Edmonds, Washington over the past several months.  I'm still a novice at this cleaning business, in part because I've become a little discouraged, and for a time I've put off dealing with what's in my lye bath -- and on my garage shelves waiting for the lye bath.

Here's my issue:  Doesn't seem to matter what I do after stripping a piece down to the bare iron (sometimes after removing underlying rust via elbow grease or vinegar bath).  No matter how  well I dry the piece off before heating it up in the oven for the first time, and no matter how fast after drying it I put it in the pre-heated oven, it almost always develops a fine layer of rust.  I usually don't see the flash rust till I take the pan out to apply my first coat of Crisco.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I don't ever seem to keep the lovely, bare iron bare (= no rust) for more than a few minutes after getting it ready for its first trip into the oven.
 :-? >:( :(
So I got disgusted with the process and have been on hold with my pieces until I had time to post here.  Now that I'm laid up for a day or two with possibly a broken foot, I have way more time at my laptop than I ever wanted, so...  I'm hoping for some good advice from you guys.  Maybe the Northwest humidity is the culprit?  Any tips would be much appreciated!

[Roger Barfield]

Carolyn, I live in a humid area and this is what I do.  Once I take the piece out of the electro or lye bath, I go over it with dawn dishwashing soap and a stainless choreboy.  I do this with cold water, hot water seemed to cause the flash rust to occur more.  I then wipe it down and dry it.  I take it out and go over it with a soft stainless wire wheel on my drill and wipe it off with a paper towel.  You can either season it, or coat with mineral oil to store, display, or wash off and season later.  That's it.  I don't have any problem with rust like your describing.  

[Sandy Glenn]

Roger and I must have gone to the same school, years apart of course ;), because I do the exact same thing and it works great.  Carolyn, don't get discouraged... we've all been there.  Hope your foot heals quickly for you.

[Charlee]

I took to putting a cup of vinegar in the dishwater that I use to wash off the lye.  Just have to rinse it well...and Perry's the one that told me to use cold water.
Still get a touch of flash, but after it's dry, I oil it, wipe it completely dry, (I go thru paper towels like a kid thru candy) and then oil it again to season...the first oil seems to take off the flash and keep it from coming back..

[Carolyn Shlafer]

I dunno, maybe it's what I do in the 2-second walk between the kitchen counter and the oven that causes the piece to suck in moisture...?  But seriously, Roger, I often do use a s.s. chore boy, and I always use cold water.  The one thing I haven't tried yet ('cause I haven't got a dremel/drill set yet) is a wire wheel as the last step.  Then I try to dry extremely thoroughly with paper towels before putting it into a really hot (450 degree) oven.   The idea being that any residual moisture I may have missed with the paper towels will rapidly dry in the high heat, and beat out the flash rust process.  Despite all this, very frequently I still take the piece out of the oven and see flash rust.  Not with every single piece, but probably 75% of the time.  Feels like I've tried everything.
 :(

[Carolyn Shlafer]

OK Charlee, that's an interesting method!  Do you use the oil to wipe off the flash before you heat the newly-cleaned piece for the first time?  What oil do you use?  Is the oil you use to get the flash rust off ALSO the first layer/coat of seasoning, or do you use a different one, such as Crisco, to do additional coats, if any?  Sorry for all the questions!

[Charlee]

I'm sorry Carolyn, I left out a step!   After the first oiling, I rinse it under hot water.  That first oil is more of an "oiled scrub"...THEN I dry it with the paper towels and heat it in the oven.  
I use Pam for all of the steps....since Greg Stahl posted the low temp Pam method after the convention... :)

[Chris Stairs]

Charlee,  
  Vinegar in the dish water: why didn't I think of that? What I do when I have several pieces to do, is wipe them down immediately after drying with straight vinegar, so that the first one doesn't rust while I'm washing the next. I'll have to try that on my next one.

[Lee Sumner]

Ron I do the same thing you do, hose it off and wire wheel it seems to work for me,,,,,,,,

[Jesse and Kim Dunfee]

Humidity I would say is the culprit. I guess I'm the odd one who uses HOT water. Tried the cold but didn't find it helpful. From Day one I have always used a bit of white vinegar in the rinse water.Out of the Lye, scrub with the stainless chore boy. Into the HOT rinse water and washed with a Scotchbrite. Out and dried with a old Dish or bath towel. The Iron is hot and drys some on its own. Drive out the rest of the moisture on the stove burner and that it. I have had pieces sit on the stove for days with no flash rust.That has worked for me but I can see that everyone has there own set of circumstances to work around.

[C. Perry Rapier]

Those all sound like good ideas, whatever works, right. Here's what I do. I take it out of the lye water, rinse with cold water to get the lye water off, then I let the piece/pieces soak in dawn detergent water overnight.

The next day you pick the piece up, and all that black slime, you wipe that off with paper towels and then go over the piece good with an SOS pad, then rinse it off with cold water, dry it off good, and then put it in the oven and let it good and hot for an hour or so at 400 degrees, then I take it out and put mineral oil on it, it smokes just a tad at 400 degrees, and I put the mineral oil on with a brush, it goes on very nice and even and complete when its hot like that, then I let it cool and wipe it off with a tee shirt, fruit of the loom, and then I can display it, the mineral oil darkens it, and it looks good.

Now if I was going to season it, after I washed it off with the SOS pad, and rinsed it off with cold water, then I would season it.

[Carolyn Shlafer]

So... this is getting so complicated, I've compiled a summary of all of your different methods.  Here it is:

Roger Barfield
scrub with s.s. choreboy in cold Dawn dishwater
(cold rinse?)
wipe down to dry
go over whole piece with soft s.s. wire wheel
wipe with paper towel
season

Charlee Turner
wash in cold dishwater with a cup of vinegar
rinse well in cold water
dry with paper towels
wipe down with Pam
rinse well in hot water
dry with paper towels
wipe down with Pam again for first seasoning coat
into oven to begin seasoning (low-temp Pam method)

Chris Stairs
after washing and drying, wipe down piece with straight vinegar
(then what? rinse to remove vinegar??)

Ron Wheeler
(electro cleaned)
hose with cold water
dry with rags
go over with s.s. wire wheel
coat with mineral oil
wipe down with rags to prevent flash rusting till ready to season
when ready to season, wash in hot Dawn dishwater
rinse in cold water
dry with rags
remove rest of moisture on by heating on stove burner
start seasoning process

H. Jesse Dunfee
scrub with s.s. choreboy (in water or dishwater? what temp?)
rinse in hot rinse water with some vinegar in it; use Scotchbrite pad (which kind?) to scrub (while submerged in rinse water?)
dry with dish towel
remove rest of moisture on by heating on stove burner
season whenever you want

CPR
rinse in cold water
soak overnight in Dawn dishwater (what temp?)
go over with SOS pad (plain steel wool kind or kind with soap in it?)
rinse in cold water
dry thoroughly
start seasoning
OR, for display, after cold-water rinse and drying:
put in 400 degree oven for 1 hour
brush on mineral oil while hot
let cool
wipe off mineral oil with rags

Hope I've understood everyone; thanks for the great ideas!  I really appreciate the feedback.  Let me know if you have additions/corrections.  Then I'll have to try each one over the next several lye-bath pieces...
 :-/ :-/ :-/

[C. Perry Rapier]

Thats right Ron, don't want no off brand Tee Shirts.  ;D ;D

And Carolyn, I use the SOS with the soap in them. And I start out with hot water and just let it get cold and sit there over night. The reason I do this is because for some reason that sludge comes right up and lays there and you can wipe if off very easily, which makes the cleaning a whole lot easier, and you might think it would rust, if its under water it will not rust, I have left pieces in dishwater like that for 2 or three days, won't hurt a thing.  ;)

[Chris Stairs]

Carolyn,

  My comment was to Charlee regarding putting vinegar in the dishwater. I am new at this, and still working things out. I have limited experience here compared to most of the others. I've only cleaned and seasoned maybe 20 pieces total, so my method may be wrong. I wire brush, and scrub with the soap that comes on the sos pad, rinse well Then treat with vinegar after drying, and wipe it completely off. I do not wash off the vinegar before seasoning. I apply the lard to the piece after preheating to 200 degrees or so. I find I get a very black finish this way. I'm not saying this is the best way, and you should probably stick to the advice of the more experienced members. One thing I know for sure is that everyone has their own method that works for them, and when you find what works for you,it will be worth the time spent experimenting.

[Jesse and Kim Dunfee]

I think Chris has summed it up pretty well. I do some things that are going aginst the grain but works for me just fine.... :)

[C. Perry Rapier]

I think Chris has summed it up pretty well. I do some things that are going aginst the grain but works for me just fine.... :)

Jesse, I agree with you about Chris's remarks. And if its working for you, stick with it. I found that I was having to do extra work to get the slime (for lack of a better word) off a piece after I pulled it out of the lye. The lye turns the carbon to black slime and its gotta come off in order to do anything with the piece.

[Chris Stairs]

Perry,
  I don't get slime because I use the self cleaning oven method. With the hood vent fan on high, and when my wife is not expected home for a few hours. I don't know how it compares to the lye or electrolosis because this is the only method I have used. I have never had it damage a piece, but I don't have any highly valued things to clean anyway. All of mine are users.

[C. Perry Rapier]

Perry,
  I don't get slime because I use the self cleaning oven method. With the hood vent fan on high, and when my wife is not expected home for a few hours. I don't know how it compares to the lye or electrolosis because this is the only method I have used. I have never had it damage a piece, but I don't have any highly valued things to clean anyway. All of mine are users.

Chris, your self cleaning oven method will work just fine. But if you use lye, you will get slime. Now that slime that I am talkng about is carbon, which is burned up in your oven when you use the self cleaning cycle for your cast iron. I like lye because it is easy to use and does a through job, and you can do quite a bit at one time, and then take them out and clean them up as you want. I currently have three lye baths going, one small one that holds about 8 pieces, and bigger one that holds maybe 12 pieces, and a 35 gallon barrel, which I don't put more than 15 or so pieces in, depending on size etc. but could put a whole bunch more in, but then, the lye water is deep, and to get that last piece or so, the water might be over my gloves, so I am thinking about gettiing me one of them magnets on a stick. That way I can put a whole bunch of pieces in the barrel, and still be able to get them out.  ;)

[Sandy Glenn]

Self cleaning ovens do a great job cleaning iron but will ruin the temper on Dutch oven bail handles, waffle iron coil handles, etc.

[Chris Stairs]

Sandy,

  Thanks for the "heads up" on wire handles. I have a DU coming in the mail, and would not have thought of that. I'll have to see about removing the bail...

Perry,

I can only do 4-5 pieces in my oven, but they are all done in a single day. Cleaned and seasoned.