Author Topic: Cathode material  (Read 17483 times)

Offline Dwayne Henson

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Cathode material
« on: December 05, 2005, 06:57:18 PM »
Is there any metal that should NOT be used as the sacrificial piece? Will a regular, large, food tin can work? What about sheet metal? Just want to make sure I don't mess something up, or make some kind of toxin. Thanks-Dwayne
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
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Fusion_power

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2005, 08:17:10 PM »
A large tin can such as a coffee can will work for a while.  It should last through about 8 or 10 pans.  I wouldn't recommend it for long term but if you just have a few items, have at it.

I would not recommend using any iron based sheeting.  It erodes very rapidly leaving you with a slab of rust.  

I finally found a piece of hospital grade stainless steel that is just about right.  Its managed to stand up to about 30 pans so far with negligible damage.  I have to scrape it once in a while to remove the calcite and iron deposits.

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2005, 08:17:17 PM »
Dwayne, when I first started using electro I used flattened out number 10 restaurant cans, and they worked beautifully. However, they don't last long, but they are cheap, they are plentiful, and they are easy to use. As far as anything you can't use, I don't know, just guessin, but I'd say copper or aluminum might not be good.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2005, 11:21:47 PM by butcher »

Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2005, 08:46:16 PM »
 I have access to more #10 cans than I could ever use. I just wanted to make sure they would be ok. The stainless steel trays I have been using are worn through. Thanks
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

moosejaw

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2005, 03:29:28 AM »
Dwayne,

I don't know what type of coffee cans Darrel is using, but I'm lucky if I get through one crusty pan before the coffee can dissolves.  Coffee cans are fine, and if you have an endless supply, use them.  I'm much happier with Stainless Steel....particularly my new SS bathtub.   ;D

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2005, 08:06:28 PM »
Quote
Dwayne,

I don't know what type of coffee cans Darrel is using, but I'm lucky if I get through one crusty pan before the coffee can dissolves.  Coffee cans are fine, and if you have an endless supply, use them.  I'm much happier with Stainless Steel....particularly my new SS bathtub.   ;D


Marty, are you using that barrel yet, or are you just blowing smoke? It probably is big enough for you to take a bath in.

moosejaw

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2005, 02:26:45 AM »
I'm just blowin' smoke.......had to get the sewer line fixed before I set up my new bathtub.  It's so purty, I hate to get it all nasty cleaning iron.  

ADHills

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2005, 08:04:16 AM »
Please try not  to use stainless steel when performing this procedure. All though you will find it very effective old cast iron (preferably the chinese kind) will work just as well. The issue with stainless steel is most of it has some form of chromium in it and can produce toxic results. These toxins can cause birth defects, contaminate the water supply, etc. The level you create when cleaning a single pan will not be large but overtime these chemicals can accumulate. If your solution has a yellow tint or shows yellow this is a strong indication of this. Should this occur you should treat the water as toxic waste. Let it evaporate away and collect the residual material and turn into your local waste management service.

ADHills

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2005, 08:35:31 AM »
The following link explains electrolysis pretty well.

http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2005, 09:15:11 AM »
I've tested my setup for chromium ions and found none.  Also, not all chromium is hazardous.  If I remember correctly it is the hexa- form that is hazardous.
"NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!" Alice Cooper.

ADHills

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2005, 10:13:47 AM »

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2005, 11:29:45 AM »
My feeling about using SS in the electrobath is about the same as the talk about aluminum causing Alzhemier's disease.  One will find evidence for and against.  That is the reason that I measured chromium ions in the SS setup when we first started talking about using it in the electrobath.  Now not all SS is created equally, that is for sure.
"NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!" Alice Cooper.

gt

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2005, 10:40:41 AM »
Quote
I've tested my setup for chromium ions and found none.  Also, not all chromium is hazardous.  If I remember correctly it is the hexa- form that is hazardous.

Greg,

Did you do your test using the big SS barrel you got from CPR?  If so, how much had you used the setup have when you checked it?

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2005, 04:20:19 PM »
Quote
Quote
I've tested my setup for chromium ions and found none.  Also, not all chromium is hazardous.  If I remember correctly it is the hexa- form that is hazardous.

Greg,

Did you do your test using the big SS barrel you got from CPR?  If so, how much had you used the setup have when you checked it?
I did not but can do that, as I have had my setup for a long time now.  THe problem I have is that my basement is a mess and I have no idea where the kit is in the mess in the basement.  I may get lucky and find all of my stuff in the mess sometime this spring.  Man, what a mess.  The good news is that the blue board is all up in the kitchen and the plasterer comes in the morning with his crew and will be done tomorrow.
"NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!" Alice Cooper.

fliccer

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2006, 06:57:32 PM »
http://www.johnnypopper.com/forums/index.php?s=452317bfb47b75fa4473c23d1e333c4b&act=Post&CODE=06&f=1&t=8564&p=45063

Hi all, I have been poking around regarding the ue of SS and found this site. It is a little hard to follow exactly who is posting what but there is a lengthy reply from a gentleman that sure seems like he had lots of experience and knowledge on the subject. They even reference the antique tactor page as well. I will post more if I find it.
JVN

fliccer

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2006, 07:05:34 PM »
ANother pretty convincing story...this one supporting NO stainless steel usage.
http://www.enginads.com/extras/2004stor.cgi/noframes/read/63073&expand/1

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2006, 02:36:21 PM »
I don't see what you see as being convincing?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 02:38:08 PM by admin »
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fliccer

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2006, 09:03:17 PM »
Hi Greg, id you make it all the way down the thread? The post I was refering to was  Re: Stainless electrodes
Posted by: larry rusch -- Friday, 27 February 2004, at 3:29 p.m.

This was nearly to the very bottom of the thread. What I meant by convincing is that this gentleman seems to be knowledgable. His post is copied below. Here it is in full:

Briefly, concerning hexavalent chromium. In any electrolytic cell there are basically two types of chemical reaction occuring; reduction at the cathode and oxidation at the anode. What this means essentially is that the anode (the so-called sacrificial electrode) dissolves. Electrons are removed from the neutral metal of the anode material and it goes into solution as positively charged metal ions. In the case of stainless steel (at least most of the common ones) there is substantial chromium present in the alloy. Chromium exists in primarily 2 ionic states in solution, +3 and +6, trivalent and hexavalent. This means that either 3 or 6 electrons have been removed from the neutral metal atoms during the oxidation process. While trivalent chromium is relatively benign, hexavalent chromium can be rather nasty, especially at high concentrations. It is also carcinogenic. Under most electrolysis conditions the amount of hexavalent chromium generated is small so the acute effects are not generally a problem provided one takes normal precautions when dealing with chemicals/solutions. Disposal of the solution is more of a problem however, because hexavalent chromium is a highly controlled environmental pollutant and must be controlled down to very low levels, much lower than you might see in a used electrolysis bath. There are ways to reduce or even eliminate the production of hexavalent chromium by adjusting solution composition, current, voltage, passivation techniques and so on, but it gets complicated very quickly. But, why bother? The aim here is to clean old iron. It's easiest just to avoid the problem by not using stainless steel for your anodes. Concerning acute effects, these are highly individual, I know people who worked up to their elbows in plating solutions for years with no ill effects. Then all of a sudden one of them became sensitized so severely he couldn't walk through a plating room without breaking out in a rash. This was a nickel sensitivity, not chromium. I hope I didn't bore you with all of this, but I wanted to try to give an understandable explanation without giving a course in chemistry at the same time. Hope this helps.

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2006, 09:32:28 PM »
I saw that part of the post, but as a scientist, I was not convinced by the argument about nickle sensitization in a plating facilty. IMO, again IMO, this is a lot about nothing.  If hexavalent chromium is made, it is so small to not worth anything, IMO.  

As humans, we make more dangerous substances driving our cars/trucks each day compared to the hexavalent ions we 'may' make.  Again, IMHO
"NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!" Alice Cooper.

Offline Will Person

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Re: Cathode material
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2006, 11:49:44 PM »
Ok,  I have read allot of this.  I am not taking sides.   But I have to ask this.   What is worse???  Hex-a-whatever it is, or Lye that I get on my skin or the cigars I smoke everyday or the chemicals I work with every day???   What is the dangers of hex-a.....???  

Thanks,

Will 8-)