Author Topic: my wife came up with a question about lye  (Read 2423 times)

Offline Robert Bearfield

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my wife came up with a question about lye
« on: January 08, 2014, 03:16:18 PM »
i've never seen this referred to, but she mentioned that if the cast iron has pores, can the lye get into them?  :-*
Ignorance can be taught, STUPID is permanent. I speak 3 languages, english, sarcasm, and profanity, and I am very fluent in at least 2 of them.

Offline Neal Birkett

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 03:19:10 PM »
Yes.  Not sure if you have a deeper question, so I won't guess.

Neal
Best Regards,
Neal

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 03:23:09 PM »
No.. short answer.  Looking for the link for the LONG answer....

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 03:36:37 PM »
Modified short answer:  Cast Iron will not absorb lye like a 'sponge'.  The recommendations I and others make for vigorous scrub downs during the restoration process are to ensure the removal of residue that may be lurking in the textured surface of the iron....


Reply #48 - http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1225903666/49#49

Go to reply # 25  http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1233166560/all

Reply #16  - http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1167827564/16#16

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 11:06:52 PM by lillyc »

Offline Robert Bearfield

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 09:46:55 PM »
Neal, what do you mean, deeper question? the question is, can lye get into the pores?  i believe lye is a poison, and cast iron does have pores. my wife is concerned. isn't the question deep enough?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:49:19 PM by bearfield »
Ignorance can be taught, STUPID is permanent. I speak 3 languages, english, sarcasm, and profanity, and I am very fluent in at least 2 of them.

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 11:03:28 PM »
Lye (sodium hydroxide) is not a poison.

Lye is used in the processing of food, and as an ingredient in a number of food products:
Lye is used to peel peaches, nectarines, apricots and pears prior to canning: 
http://books.google.com/books?id=6Cox1IpjqU0C&lpg=PA121&ots=PZ3cQOVCxT&dq=lye%20in%20food%20processing&pg=PA121#v=onepage&q=lye%20in%20food%20processing&f=false

Lye is used to cure types of food, such as: lutefisk; olives (making them less bitter); canned mandarin oranges; hominy; lye rolls; century eggs; and, pretzels.

Lye is also a main component used in soap making.

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 11:17:29 PM »
Reply #48 from the first reference thread above, bears repeating here. While the terms can be confusing: porosity does not mean pourous... pores in cast iron, do not mean open holes (as described in this reply)

 
Quote
Quote
could the iron in some cases be so porous that the pieces actually retain moisture?   

I think we need to talk about this whole 'porous' thing.  Cast iron is not porous like a sponge - it won't soak things up. Cast iron does have pores, but they are microscopic and tightly filled with graphite that comes from the carbon in the melt and crystallizes out of the iron as it cools.  These little bits of graphite are part of what makes cast iron what it is.  Now on the very surface, the exposed graphite particles might fall out, be scraped out or even burned out, but these holes are only a few microns (a thousandth of a millimeter) thick and can only be seen with a big microscope.  That doesn't change the fact that the surface is truly solid and does not soak up anything.

I'm not picking on you or anyone else, Carolyn, rather I want to counter this notion that seems to be commonly misunderstood and spread around (especially on the web) by any number of folks who mean well but are just repeating what somebody else said that sounds reasonable.

Offline Robert Bearfield

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 11:34:56 PM »
cheryl, correct me if i'm wrong, but the lye tank that i soak my cast iron in, has to be in the garage because it gives off fumes, right?
Ignorance can be taught, STUPID is permanent. I speak 3 languages, english, sarcasm, and profanity, and I am very fluent in at least 2 of them.

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 12:04:05 AM »
Robert, a number of our members keep their lye tanks inside. (kitchen or basement) .
I always mix mine outside, because when you initially mix lye with water, the exothermic reaction gives off fumes.  After mixing is complete, I have not experienced any noticeable fumes or smell.  Last winter I had a 5 gallon bucket of lye sitting in my kitchen, with lid, with no problems.  Will probably have a small one again, in the next few weeks, in the kitchen.

My larger capacity lye baths are outside, or in the garage (e.g. the current heated lye bath).

Now that is not to say that lye is totally harmless to humans.  The solution is very caustic (high PH = Base), and can cause burns to the skin and human tissue, which is why I wear a full face shield to protect my eyes and face, and chemical gloves to protect my hands and forearms. I also keep a source of running water close at hand, and a spray bottle of 100% vinegar (acetic acid) within reach in case of accidental splash onto skin.

Acid is at the other end of the spectrum with low PH... and is just as nasty at low PH.

Operating an Electrolysis will produce Hydrogen as a byproduct, and should not be placed or operated in a confined space.  Operation should be in a ventilated area, so that the hydrogen is dispersed and cannot build up (as in a confined area).  Hydrogen can and will go boom!  Nor should an electrolysis be operated near an open flame source without proper ventilation.    I have run my electro in the garage, with the kerosene heater burning, and have not had any issues... but then my garage is extremely self-ventilating... (meaning, poorly insulated with lots of airflow from the outside)  ;D  I always turn off my battery charger before touching or removing any connectors, to avoid random sparks that could ignite any residual hydrogen.

 The bottom line is, that you should only do what you feel comfortable with regarding lye and/or electrolysis. 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 12:05:09 AM by lillyc »

Offline Robert Bearfield

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 03:09:43 PM »
thanks cheryl, i think i'll do a 6 gallon bucket in the basement. gotta keep it away from the curious great- grandchildren.
Ignorance can be taught, STUPID is permanent. I speak 3 languages, english, sarcasm, and profanity, and I am very fluent in at least 2 of them.

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 03:20:56 PM »
Absolutely Robert.  My #1 concern is children and pets!

I no longer have little ones around, but when the little guys next door visit, I always make sure that lids are secure, etc.  And my rules regarding the LB's and electrolysis are thoroughly reviewed with children, with dire consequences established.  (Sometimes the Great Nieces and Nephews come for a visit... and they get the rules laid out also!)

My kitty is already miffed about the boot tray and small vinegar bath in the kitchen.  He does not like items to appear and stay, that were not there before.  He is finally happy that the Christmas Tree is gone from the living room, but is still glaring at the carton of CI sitting here next to my computer desk, from the last auction....  ;D

Offline Neal Birkett

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 03:50:52 PM »
Hi Robert, by deeper question, I meant something like you cited.

Thank you Cheryl, you are correct.  Lye is not a poison at the levels left after washing.  Lye (NaOH, with Na being sodium, as in salt sodium chloride) is simply the negatively (-) charged component of water molecule that has been split (H+ and OH-).

In high concentrations lye is reactive and caustic, tending to literally dissolve anything biological, and is very bad to get on skin or consume.  Technically, causing this sort of biological action (dissolve) is considered "caustic" rather than "poison," although some use the terms somewhat interchangeably.  However, the OH- ion and its activity is actually critical to sustaining life (at appropriate very low levels, of course).  The OH- ion is present anytime something is said to be alkaline, such as alkaline fertilizer additives.  Some foods are alkaline, and have slightly more OH- than H+.

That said, lye is completely miscible (mixable) with water, and ready washes away, and becomes neutralized.  It does not persist well in any environment that has a lot of water or flowing water, not even in the pores that might exist at this size in cast iron.

Best,
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 03:55:20 PM by The_Regulator »
Best Regards,
Neal

Offline Robert Bearfield

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 04:10:49 PM »
i guess that means i really don't have to use the wires i put on the handles of my cast iron. i can just take it from the lye mixture to the wash basin just using my naked hands without worrying about hurting or burning my hands. right?
Ignorance can be taught, STUPID is permanent. I speak 3 languages, english, sarcasm, and profanity, and I am very fluent in at least 2 of them.

Offline Neal Birkett

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 04:29:01 PM »
Sorry if I was not clear that the solution that we use to dissolve crud from cast iron is [size=14]NOT DILUTE[/size].  Do not use your bare hands to remove cast iron from the lye bath.
Best Regards,
Neal

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 04:30:25 PM »
Quote

In high concentrations lye is reactive and caustic, tending to literally dissolve anything biological, and is very bad to get on skin or consume. 
That said, lye is completely miscible (mixable) with water, and readily washes away, and becomes neutralized.  It does not persist well in any environment that has a lot of water or flowing water, not even in the pores that might exist at this size in cast iron.
Robert, at the concentrations I use, whether 5:1 or 5:2, that would be a high concentration, and WILL dissolve the biological material that is my "hands". :) <prior to rinsing/ scrubbing it off>

My hangwires will stay in place... as will the chemical gloves on my hands and the full face shield ;)

Offline Robert Bearfield

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Re: my wife came up with a question about lye
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 11:45:18 AM »
understood, I thank both of you for explaining in one syllable words.
Ignorance can be taught, STUPID is permanent. I speak 3 languages, english, sarcasm, and profanity, and I am very fluent in at least 2 of them.