Electro questions 3 & 4: anode containment, and hydrogen gas in basement

[Mark Zizzi]

Lewis, I wish I knew how you're creating those drawings and posting them here...pretty neat. But if you look at the bold black lines which are the side walls of the tub and imagine them, say, 1/3 lower...you're now below the blue shaded area. You still haven't labeled the height measurement, but if that is drawn true to scale, (which I have a feeling it is), you should be good.
A couple suggestions. If you end up putting the keg in the blue barrel, put something under the keg so the tops of both are even. You don't want to be reaching down into the barrel to get to your actual electro tank...well I wouldn't want to. You could use a cinder block maybe..anything sturdy enough to hold the weight.
 Also, consider using your white tub for a lye bath. Although you *can* use the electro to remove crud, when you see what it does to the electrolyte, (black as ink, and develops an odor), if you have the room, set up a separate lye bath. (I don't know if it came with a lid, but you should keep a cover on a lye tank). If you use your electro only to remove rust, the rust settles to the bottom and the electrolyte stays clean so you can see what the heck you're doing next time.
So I'm going to beat Cheryl to her own good advice ;)...lye for crud, electrolysis for rust. Sometimes after the crud is off, there is no rust...or very little. A couple hours of electro and you're done, vs much longer if you're zapping crud too. You'll save on electricity and wear and tear on your charger.
How close is too close? I would say less than one inch is too close, 2-4" is ok, 5 or 6 will work just fine too. It will vary depending on the piece..IMO.

[Lewis Downey]

Mark, Excellent info. Thank you. 

I will have a second white tub to use for a lye bath.  The drawings are not to scale the way an architect or engineer would require, but they approximate scale.  I knock each one out in about 5 or 10 mins using Omnigraffle 4 on a souped up 8-year old MacBook running an old version of Mac OS X.

I have a few glass blocks sitting around. They could go in the bottom of the 55-gsllon drum to raise the height of the keg.

Speaking of the keg, it came back from its topectomy this afternoon. The pictures show the open-top keg by itself and with one of the bigger pieces that I have on hand. It is a long-handled skillet with three legs. I have two of them; the other one is about the same length with a slightly shorter handle and a wider, deeper... bowl (?).

[Cheryl Watson]

Cheryl,
 [smiley=youtalkingtome.gif]

Cheers, Ellis

Yeah Ellis... you bet your a$$

 ;D ;D ;D

(Now I am suffering from Holiday Stress, and I HATE VERIZON syndrome)

mea culpa!

[C. Perry Rapier]

Cheryl,
 [smiley=youtalkingtome.gif]

Cheers, Ellis

Yeah Ellis... you bet your a$$

 ;D ;D ;D

(Now I am suffering from Holiday Stress, and I HATE VERIZON syndrome)

mea culpa!

Thats right Cheryl. You tell Ellis.
Help me out. He's always pickin on me.  :'( :(

[Mark Zizzi]

Lookin good, Lewis. Post a pic when it's up and running.  8-)

[C. Perry Rapier]

I don't think that it has been made clear enough here. But, if you are using a SS container and you are cleaning iron in it and you are using it as the donor piece, its not IF it starts to leak, its WHEN it starts to leak, and it will leak because you are eating it away. So it has to leak eventually, again eventually, all depending on how thick your SS is.

But if you put your donor piece in a containment barrel and it starts to leak, no big deal, just keep right on using it.

This has not been pointed out clear enough to suit me, so thats why I am posting this.  :)

[Lewis Downey]

Posting via ancient iphone, please forgive typos...

One way or another current from the black lead contacts the CI. Is that point of contact cleaned the same way as the test of the CI? Or does it have to be cleaned manually after the electro has done its job?

I ask because for one of my pieces it would be helpful to make the black lead a SS "net" that cradled the piece on all sides. Any issues there?

Assuming that yes there is a downside, if the net was made of non-conductive plastic rope (and the black lead attached conventionally) would the areas where the rope touches the CI get cleaned? I am assuming No since those areas would not have line-of-sight to Ss anode.

Lastly what is the best practice for hanging a heavy piece with no holes in it? In particular if it has to fit in the electro "just so"?

Many thanks!

[Cheryl Watson]

You should not use any type of 'net'.

Neither metal nor plastic.

The strands in the netting will block the 'line of sight' with the positively charged anode, and will create 'line' shadowing which will be un-removable.

A metal mesh or net, will create many "loose" connection points and will probably cause arcing, which will seriously damage the piece being cleaned.

When attaching the black lead to a piece, depending on how attached, I will rotate the piece at least once, and re affix the lead to a different spot on the piece being cleaned.

Hanging a piece can be a challenge... depends what the piece is.  I have about 20+ different custom made hangers. 

C-clamps, pony clamps, and many more.... some are conductive, some non-conductive.   

[Lewis Downey]

The piece is the three-legged long-handled skillet in the pictures above. It is almost as tall as the beer keg.  You great people on this forum have been clear that arcing is a concern. Bearing that in mind I have to be careful to keep the skillet safely away from the keg, but it has no hanging hole. The legs seem a bit iffy as a connection point and other things equal I would rather have the pan at the bottom (due to the proximity to the bottom of the keg) and the handle at the top. 

[Mark Zizzi]

What I've done is drill a hole in a piece of scrap lumber long enough to span the keg.  (I used a 1x2.) Run a piece of heavy ga romex wire with both ends stripped through the hole and clamp one end to the handle with a small pair of vise grips. You could use a c-clamp, I find the vise grips easier. Lower the pan into the tank, get it centered, adjust the height and then clamp the wire on top of the wood with another pair of vice grips. Hook up your charger and when everything looks good, turn it on.  As Cheryl said, you might have to change the connection point after a while to get that previous spot clean if there was rust there. Hopefully the keg is deep enough for this piece to keep it all submerged.
 Not very high tech, but it works for me.  ;)

[Lewis Downey]

Do the materials of the secondary conductors like the Romex, vise grips, and c-clamps matter? Is copper wire fine? Would stainless steel cable work as well.

Are some materials ok and others not? Is there a list?

I noticed that all of the secondary conductors (is there a better term?) in Russell's electro were made of SS. Russell pointed that out and made some comments about plating. It was a lot to take in all at once but I have the impression that the secondary conductors can contribute undesirable elements to the CI.

[Russell Ware]

Lewis, the positive(red) lead coming from the battery charger is plated copper(on my charger). That is what I make sure is not in contact with the electro solution. It would rapidly corrode if submerged.
One of the drawbacks of using a ss container is that the piece you are cleaning can't touch the bottom. Some of the large pieces I have cleaned, I let rest on the bottom of the container, then invert the piece hours later to finish the piece. Keep in mind that large pieces may not fit in the oven for seasoning. A grill may be necessary.

[Cheryl Watson]

I have learned that exposed copper submerged in the solution will degrade and release particulate into the solution...  stranded copper will be affected more quickly than solid. 

All of my hardware is Stainless steel where possible. (washers, screws, bolts, threaded and smooth rod, flat slotted, etc.).

I ordered coated SS cable/wire, but have not had time to work with it since it arrived.  (and it is going to be a challenge to work with as it is not like stranded copper wire which is more malleable).

 http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1398537557

[Lewis Downey]

Thanks C, M, R, et al,

Russell, I suspect a recording of our conversation would show that you have already addressed most or all of the questions I am now trying to figure out how to ask.

the positive(red) lead coming from the battery charger is plated copper(on my charger). That is what I make sure is not in contact with the electro solution. It would rapidly corrode if submerged.

Hey I get this now!

Keep in mind that large pieces may not fit in the oven for seasoning. A grill may be necessary.

Yipes. There is an expense I had not anticipated. So far it looks like everything I have will fit in our oven.

Here is the plan du jour for my electro. You guys have persuasively argued that the beer keg should be completely contained. I have decided to put it in a 30-gallon barrel if I can find one easily and if the construction has a similar structural integrity to the plastic 55-gallon barrel on hand. I might plop the keg into the 55-gallon barrel for now to experiment with the mechanics of suspending the challenging skillet inside of the keg.