Author Topic: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression  (Read 11819 times)

woodpile

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Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« on: June 03, 2004, 11:55:04 AM »
Greetings:  I am hoping Steve or anyone else might have a thought Re: Griswold D.O's history and progression.  Here is how I have it figured and if anyone see's a flaw in my reasoning would appreciate any comments.  First variation was, I am assuming the Erie Dutch Oven with the flat top lid, there may be more than 1 variation of these, I do not know? Size # on the bottom.  Second was the Slant Logo Erie with slightly raised lid Size # and pattern # on the bottom. Lid was plain on the underside.  Third was the Slant Logo EPAUSA Baster with rings under the lid and patent applied for.  I am assuming the patent applied for was for the basting rings. Size # and Pattern # on the bottom. Fourth was the Same design except with Patented 1920 rather than patent applied for.  Fifth was the TT Dutch Oven with size and pattern # on the bottom EPAUSA slant logo Patented 1920 ( Have not seen this, is just a guess based on my D.O w/legs). Six was the block logo and same.  From then on I have not tried to figure any more of the progression.  I have seen or had all of these pieces, with the noted exception, however just recently picked up a different piece.  It is the Patent applied for Baster, however the size # is not on the bottom but rather on top of the handles.  This is similar to the flat bottom Scotch bowls with the size # on the handles, however in my case the #'s are recessed rather than raised.  I am assuming this is a piece that may have fit between the Slant Griswold Erie and the patent applied for Baster with size # on the bottom, perhaps a fleeting experiment?  Do not know?  has anyone else seen one of these and if so what sizes?  Thanks George V

Steve_Stephens

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2004, 01:40:14 PM »
Hey George,
Here's the basic do progression as I recall:

ERIE with flat top but some had a slightly domed cover.  Maybe these were the later ERIE pots.  8 was the smallest.  Some early probably do not have pattern number and cover may have a knob instead of the usual handle.  I've only seen one and do not remember it clearly.
Addition:  Late in ERIE production (c.1905-10?) a No.6 and No.7 ERIE dutch oven were added to the line.

Slant/ERIE with a low domed cover and "applied" handle which is not really applied after the casting.  Only pattern number on inside of cover (and size number??).  I can't think of any of these with the TM inside the cover.  There are probably differences in some of the larger sizes.  No.6 is smallest.  All from here should have pattern number and Erie on the bottom up throught 1957.

Slant EPU (Erie, PA, USA) Tight Top Baster.  First covers with Patent Appl'd For.  The patent date of Feb. inside the slightly later covers refer to the basting rings.  The March 1920 date on the pot's bottom refers to the locking bail attachment ears.

Slant(?) EPU Tight Top Dutch Oven with low domed cover and round handle like earlier do's

Note:  I have had, and have photos of, a low dome Tight Top Baster do cover with the slant TM.  I believe it was the same pot which had a Tight Top Baster bottom with a BLOCK tm.  The two photos are together in my old Cast Iron Cookware News on p. 83 if anyone has a copy and wants to see them.  This seems strange that the later block TM is on an earlier Baster pot while the later Dutch Oven cover has the earlier slant TM.  I am assuming the Baster was earlier than the Dutch Oven markings and also think there may have been some overlap in production.  Or, did Griswold sell Basters in some parts of the country and Dutch Ovens in others for a time?  Another strange sequence of unidentified events from Griswold.  Being as how the covers were not cast at the same time as the bottoms, it is conceivable that Griswold shipped whatever they had on hand even if the TM's or other wording on the pots were not matched.

Block EPU Tight Top Dutch Oven with high domed cover with angular handle like later do's.
Earlier ones were gated at the bottom of the straight sides as the sides rolled into the bottom.  Later ones were not gated there but were on the top, outside rim.  I think all sizes at least 6-10 can be found in the later style which gives a nicer cast pot.

1930's style with the rounded bail attaching ears.  I think the button logo covers were the first ones and, later, the TM on the covers was removed but I am not certain about this.  Could be that the logo covers came later although the very last ones were smooth tops.  Medium large TM's for a long time with the last of production changing to small TM at least on the No.8 pot.  I don't know if other sizes of do's were made in the later (c1950's) years.

I don't know where the pot size was first put on the top of the pots' ears but it was there on at least the later Block TM pots and possibly earlier.  I would think you might have an early marriage with your pat. appl'd for cover with the pot with number on top of handle but maybe not.  May have missed some details here as it's been a long time since I have had many of these do's.

Steve

« Last Edit: June 05, 2004, 10:07:09 PM by Steve_Stephens »

woodpile

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2004, 12:37:12 PM »
Greetings Steve:  Sounds to me as your reasoning is same as mine except you go into greater detail and longer time span.  My baster lid has besides the pat applied for and the applied round handle the slant logo in the center bottom of the lid and epausa. I guess I had not made that clear. The baster bottom also has the slant logo epausa along with the pattern# .  I am positive mine is not a marriage.  I acquired it from an oldtimer who knew where it had been for a long time.  I did not know the block logo's had the # on the handles?  Have never seen one?  What size have you seen them in?  I would do a photo of mine but have not cleaned the bottom yet and cannot until I get cast off.  If anyone wants a photo to clarify let me know and will do after get it cleaned.  Thanks for your reply.  Cheerio George V

moosejaw

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2004, 04:42:04 PM »
Interesting discussion.  This type of interaction is what makes this forum so good.  

Steve_Stephens

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2004, 10:15:18 PM »
George,
I use the following abbreviations and maybe we don't quite understand each other but I know your cover I think.  There was one on ebay last week.
Slant TM with ERIE below the TM:  Slant/E or Slant/ERIE
Slant TM with ERIE, PA, U.S.A. below the TM:  Slant/EPU

I have added to my post above "Late in ERIE production (c.1905-10?) a No.6 and No.7 ERIE dutch oven were added to the line."   These pots I think have the domed cover with no TM on the inside and are like the slant/E do's and covers but marked ERIE on bottom of pot with the p/n also.

Since several of my do's are buried in my closet (terrible place for a collection) I can't check to see if the 7 slant/EPU or block 8 high dome have the number on top of the pot's handles.  Pretty sure my 8 does and I think all sizes were probably made with the number on the two handles but not all block TM do's may have them.  Just don't remember.  Sometimes the numbers are not very deeply incised so any crud might obsure them.  Post a photo of your do when you get it cleaned if you can or email one to me.
Steve

woodpile

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2004, 12:56:57 PM »
O.K Steve, sounds as if your #7 is marked like mine possibly? on the handle top.  Mine is slant/EPU on the bottom and also on the bottom of the lid.  I have the bottom of the oven clean and also the lid but not the inside bottom.  When I get it clean will post a photo for everyone here on this thread.  Will see if you recognize it then.  Cheerio George V

Offline Mark Ritter

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2004, 04:27:16 AM »
I have the same dutch oven as you explained.Number 8,slant TM,Erie,2551A.all inside top cover.Bottom number 8,slant TM,Erie,833.Like you said the bottom of this pan needs cleaning and would gladly post pictures after I clean.

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2004, 11:11:41 PM »
I have a number 12 and 13 with the numbers on the handles. The number 11 on down does not. I am sorry but I do not understand the rest of what you are talking about, the epausa top and the slant logo epausa bottom.

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2004, 05:42:53 PM »
While I was looking at the handles of the dutch ovens I made this observation. I thougt it was interesting. The inside measurements of the handle on the lid are the same on a number 6 as they are on a number 13, right at 2 1/4 inches. However, the number 12 inside measurements are 3 1/2 inches. You would think with a lid the size of the 13 that you would have more room to get your fingers around the lid to pick it up, since it is so big and heavy. With the 12 I can get my all my fingers under the handle to lift it off. With the 13 I have to really squeeze to get three fingers under the handle. Just an observation. You would think these lid handles would be standard, but not so. Also, the number 12 sticks up higher than the number 13.

woodpile

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2004, 08:36:43 PM »
Greetings C. Perry:  My message intent was to point out the lid and the bottom were both marked the same as to the epausa and slant logo.  Steve thought they might possibly be not a match.  Are your pieces basters or Dutch Ovens?  If Basters are they marked with the patent applied for under the lid?  It sounds to me possibly the largest sizes ie... #12 and #13 may have been marked differently than other sizes Re: the # on the handles.  I had a #11 T.T. Dutch Oven and it was not marked with the size on the handles as yours is not.  I have never seen a #12, either D.O or Baster.  Cheerio George V

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2004, 10:16:49 PM »
Hello George, The number 12 and 13 are tite-top dutch ovens. Also, when I said I did not understand, and still do not understand, the word epausa. What does the word EPAUSA mean? From what I can see the number 12 and 13 are different from the rest in their markings. Also, the handles, as I stated earlier, are a big difference between the two.

Offline Will Person

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2004, 10:48:30 PM »
EPAUSA

Erie PennsylvaniA USA

Will P. [smiley=smoking.gif]

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2004, 11:20:12 PM »
Thanks Will, Now I get it. Man, am I dumb or what? That is funny. I looked in three dictionaries and could not find that word. I'm thinking, man this George is putting some Greek stuff on me or something". I thought it meant some manner of construction or design. Epause to you too Will, back at ya.

woodpile

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2004, 10:08:06 AM »
Greetings C. Perry:  It is not a word, means Erie Pennsylvania United States of America.  Some pieces are just marked Erie.  George V

Steve_Stephens

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2004, 06:22:27 PM »
Quote
Steve is this the same pattern baster you have?

George,
I did not know the Tite-Top Basters had numbers on top of the handles, or forgot that some do.  Your pot is not a marriage but probably a very early Baster.  I can't read the pattern numbers to see if they match those in my pattern list but what I have listed is 2635 for a 13 do with or w/o legs and 2637 for dutch oven cover w/o flange.  Basters should have the same pattern numbers I would expect as do the 1920 patent dutch ovens.
Steve

woodpile

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Re: Griswold Dutch Oven Progression
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2004, 08:35:21 PM »
Greetings Steve & C. Perry:  For some reason your replys are not coming into my mail box?  I also did not see Will's response to C. Perry's Q when I posted my response?  Thanks Will for your info.  When I downsized the photo's I lost the pattern #'s in the photo's.  The bottom pattern # is as you said Steve 2635 and the top is 2637A.  I have deduced from C Perry's mail it would be fair to assume both the #12's and the #13's in both Basters and D.O's were size marked on the handles for what reason I do not know?  Therefore there would be no series of Basters and/or D.O's all marked the same.  It would be interesting to find out if anyone has seen or possesses a #12 or #13 NOT marked on the handles.  I think it is fair to say since there not a lot of these in the woods there probably is not a lot of info Re: this numbering system?  I also think my Baster with the patent applied for marked on the underside of the lid would be considered a rare piece.  Anyone who has any thoughts on this would be appreciative of their addition to the general knowledge.  Thanks again guys.  Cheerio George V