Re: small logo griswold pans

[Steve_Stephens]

Brian, a number of others have commented about the apparent decrease in casting quality of small TM pieces.  While some of them do seem poorer quality, many show fine quality.  I think it may have been both the time period and the particular pattern.  Ever see a small TM No.12 skillet that isn't as fine a casting as Griswold made?  I haven't and they all look superb to me.  Others seem to be of lessor quality but not all.  The 2103 square skillet I had also had superb quality and it is, I believe, a very late piece.  

Many slant/E pieces exhibit lower quality castings while other slant/E pieces are just great.  I don't know why some are good and some are not so.  In later years maybe some automatic molding machinery was used or coarser sand.

Changes in ownership may have had some effect as well as rebuildings of the foundry after fires in early years or even different skill levels of molders.

My information on Griswold/Wagner time line comes from The Housewares Story by Litshey published in 1973 by the National Housewares Manufacturers Association.

McGraw Edison bought Griswold in 1955 then sold to Randall in 1957 (after which the foundry was closed).  Randall bought Wagner in 1952, then bought Griswold in 1957 from McGraw Edison.  In 1959 Randall sold both companies to Textron which sold to General Housewares in 1969.  GHC sold out c.1997 but I don't have the exact date or to whom.  If my book is correct you can see that Wagner never did buy Griswold but the two companies ended up under the same ownership after a small series of buyouts by other companies.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

I remember seeing double marked pieces being sold new in Macy's right around 1980.  They are, without doubt, GHC pieces.

I had nice sets of small TM skillets years ago and I think most were pretty nice castings.  Whether it's the early handle or the second handle or the third handle pans that are not so good I don't remember.  Most sm. TM skillets I see are pretty good but not all up to the high quality Griswold skillets.  The one pan that will elude you in small TM is the grooved handle No.10.  I "think" I had one as I don't remember lacking it in my pile of grooved handle pans.  I should try to find my inventory sheets from long ago and see if I sold that set intact.  That way I would know if I really did have it.  They just aren't out there.  One is pictured in Dave's newsletter but almost nobody has seen one. VERY rare but for why reason I can't say.  Griswold mystery # C-27

Steve

[Duke Gilleland]

Brian, Just purchased my first Griswold this summer. A # 8 small label. Man! I could not believe how good it cooked and how easy it cleaned!
But then you see them ol' BIG slant label skillets and you kinda get fasinated  :o by all that big writing! Kinda reminds me of some of them old Pontiac front ends they had on them old cars back in the 50's... Lots of Bling-Bling and you gotta get you some [smiley=Drunk.gif].
Have bought a few lately with no name that are paper thin and slick as glass inside :o. They cook just as good as the WAG [smiley=appl.gif]... Just my 2 bits worth.

[Steve_Stephens]

were should i start if i want the hardest pans first. if i cant get the hard ones . no point in doing this as i want to see if i can get a very nice set.

A quandry here;  the small TM skillets with the early handle don't have a No.4.  The No.12 skillet only comes with the early handle I think.  (Am I right guys?)  I don't know which of the small TM skillets have the best casting quality so you will have to start seeing a lot of pans to tell or find someone who already has a bunch.  The No.13 small TM skillet was made only in brass and with the late handle.
Steve

[Harry Riva]

Steve, Did McGraw Edison buy Griswold in '55 or '57? BB has March '57 and I think I have seen something else with a 1957 date on it?
Harry

[Steve_Stephens]

McGraw Edison bought Griswold in 1955 then sold to Randall in 1957 who sold it to Textron in 1959 and on to GHC in 1969.  When one sees discrepancies among dates in different books it's time to do some more research to find out which one(s) are correct.  Since my book source was published in 1957 and done by the housewares industry I would tend to believe it but, of course, it could be off.  Then again, the blue book has some interesting details of Griswold's sales so who knows which is right?
Steve

[Harry Riva]

I had mentioned I had seen a 1957 date as the McGraw Edison buyout date in the BB and somewhere else. The somewhere else was on a letterhead in a friends collection. They sent me an enlarged pic which is attached.
Harry

[Steve_Stephens]

Thanks Harry.  That's great information.  Did McGraw sell Griswold at the end of 1957 when the foundry closed or did they keep it longer?  I think I read where McGraw Edison sold the commercial cookware division (electric cooking products) separately from the iron cookware division but don't have any specifics.  Or maybe they kept the commercial division and spun off the iron.
Steve

[junkswap]

ok im back to my old habit of over posting . i cant help it. so sue me,,lol,, but do answer me! as i started this link and said i was going to find all the realy nice small logo pans that i can. im getting one i bought in a couple of days . a #12 i had it before and rememberd it was realy realy nice for a small logo.

my big plan is to stack up the nice ones. sell the others at a local night auction where they will bring around there worth. as for the most part the folks at this auction only buy iron to cook in. they are not going to pay a big price for a collectable skillet. dag gone i ramble on so.,,lol,,

what i intend to do is see if i can make a set of any , that all would agree are all super nice. so how is the easiest way to tell the handle typ. there are 3 right,late,early,scoop,?i think the scoop will be obvious.
,,,,,brian/w,,,,,

[Steve_Stephens]

Most if not all of the No.12 sm.TM skillets rival any pans that Griswold made regarding casting quality.  Only made in the early style handle which I call 1.   Handles 2 and 3 are the late style with rounded ends in the cutout.  3. is the grooved handle.  (Scoop handle is on early ERIE skillets).   No no.4 in the early handl version.  Nothing over a 10 on the 2. version except for a No.14 but that's not a sm.TM so it doesn't count either.  VERY hard to find a No.10 with the 3. handle (grooved).  In my inventory book I use 1, 2, and 3 in a circle to denote which handle or version of sm.TM pan I have.  3. or grooved handle is the latest.  No.3 skillet also made with a 3. handle and late, large TM which is different, slightly, than the old and common large TM.
Steve
Steve

[junkswap]

thanks, i am totaly confused and figure the only way i will ever work it out is to have several to look at and go by.
,,,,,brian/w,,,,,

[Steve_Stephens]

And Brian,
Keep your eyes open for a No.3 sm.TM skillet with handle 1A.   I had the only one I ever saw.  Kind of a cross between the first and second handles and might have been a prototype used a short time before Griswold settles on the second handle version.
Steve

[junkswap]

that would be realy cool in the set of normaly low dollar skillets. that could kinda make the set worth a little? funny . but while i am thinking of these pans a friend tells me of a man that has a complete set of the small logos. and get this has all the matching lids. i have been trying to get a price from the guy. but i am sure what he says is a set is not.
like you say some handle styles didnt have a certain pan. he likely has a lot of types just all the #s. but having the lids! it would be great to get the set to have a starting place to upgrade from. and research further.
thanks steve
,,,,,brian/w,,,,,

[Steve_Stephens]

I think sm.TM covers only made in 8-10 and not even sure if the 9 was made.  But that's ok since Griswold did list all the following sizes of covers in Dec. 1950:  3, 5-10, 12, 14.  I guess they were all large TM covers except for possibly the 8,9,10.
Steve

[Jerry Cermack]

I don't know why some are good and some are not so.  In later years maybe some automatic molding machinery was used or coarser sand.

Changes in ownership may have had some effect as well as rebuildings of the foundry after fires in early years or even different skill levels of molders.

I had a conversation some time ago with a man at the Iron Casting Research Institute about hand molding cookware. He said Griswold in their later years had many problems including labor.  He also told me that Griswold and some other old foundries, used a higher clay content as a binder in their molding sand which would result in a finer smoother casting.

I was also told that, modern foundries such as Lodge, use a synthetic binder now for mold machines.

[junkswap]

so now your saying the small logo set the guy has. does not have there right lids on them? starting to wonder if i should even bother.
brian/w

[Will Person]

so now your saying the small logo set the guy has. does not have there right lids on them? starting to wonder if i should even bother.  
brian/w

No,  Steve means,  the logo inside the lid is small.   The most common lid I see with small logo skillets is the high plain dome.   Older lids have a large logo in the center..

Will P. [smiley=kos.gif]

[Steve_Stephens]

What I meant Brian is that most of the covers will have the large TM I think since few sizes of small TM covers (other than the hinged skillets' covers) were made with the sm. TM.  But it appears that Griswold did sell covers for the sm.TM pans so they would be correct even with mismatched TM's.    With the cover on the pan who would know other than you?  Go for it.  You will learn from collecting these pieces and then can update us on what you find out.
Steve

[junkswap]

hi jerry
your post got inserted out of order ? i think?
oh well ,,,,so what you are saying the clay could be a reason for the lower quality found in some of the small logos.
does lodge make those big old skillets that are in the sporting goods department at wallmart? they i think are geard to campers?
if so synthetic clay could ,or could it? be the reason the casting of those skillets are so grainy. i would not use one for a door stop. let alone cooking. but have been( since there so cheap)tempted to buy one and take a d.a. high speed air sander to it . and just work on it . just to see if one could be smoothed out?
i dont know why , when you can just buy a slick no name for around the same price. i would not use it anyway. i just love to work on things i think?
,,,,,brian/w,,,,,

[Steve_Stephens]

I am hoping we can get some answers about grainy vs smooth castings at our Lodge foundry tour at this year's convention.  Be there and you (and I) will find out, hopefully.
Steve