Author Topic: Lewis & Clark  (Read 5519 times)

Darby

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Lewis & Clark
« on: June 14, 2006, 11:43:49 AM »
I am studying a skillet that may have belonged to Lewis and Clark and was traded to an Indian in 1806. It has the attributes of an old skillet: gate mark, long handle low on the side, three long legs, no eyelet hole in the handle.  On one of Clark's maps a skillet lid was set, burning a ring in it that exactly matches the skillet that I am studying. So what are the chances of that? I am requesting rim daimeter measurements on all your three legged long handled eyelet-less skillets from the early 1800's.

This one measures 8 3/8-inches in diameter and approximately 2 ¾-inches deep with legs 1 5/8-inches tall and a 8 ½-inch handle.

I will compile the data and make it available to all.
Darby :D

Offline Clark Rader

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2006, 07:33:14 PM »
Mellissa, Joel Schiff A WAGS member posted your article on another post and it was very interesting, I am sure that he will get with you in time. One question what is the distance between the 3 d/o legs? What is the 8 1/2 handle? Good luck
clark
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Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2006, 07:55:02 PM »
post some pix please.  Joel also emailed me last week about this skillet and it sounds very interesting.  tx, greg

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Darby

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2006, 10:36:10 PM »
Hello

The distance between foot 1 and foot 2 is five inches center to center. From foot 1 to foot 3 is 5 1/8 and from foot 2 to foot 3 is 4 9/10 inches. Is this significant?

I am having a hard time inserting the photo into this space. There must be a trick to it besides hitting the insert image button. I am new to this type of forum.
[img

Thanks
Melissa
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 07:32:35 AM by admin »

Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2006, 11:39:24 PM »
Melissa, just click on my name and you will see a line that says send me an email and I will be happy to post them for you.  Sometimes the photos are too large and must be resized to post here on the forum.
As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2006, 07:32:13 AM »
you can use the attach feature with any message to post a pix.  The way you are trying to put on an image you must have a host that has the pix, not on your own personal computer
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2006, 07:02:49 PM »
1st pic
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2006, 07:06:18 PM »
I couldn't get this pic to enlarge, it was very small in the email.
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2006, 08:27:01 PM »
better photos of the bottom
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2006, 08:27:19 PM »
gate mark
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2006, 12:14:46 AM »
Darby, I don't have any that are this old to provide you with measurements.  It is very interesting.  It does look old, but puting a date or time period on old cast iron is difficult.  Unless there is a publication with an illustration and a date, it is very hard to put an exact date or date range on a piece.  I wish you luck and wish I could help more.
As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

Offline Paul Hummel

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2006, 03:06:51 AM »
Quote
I couldn't get this pic to enlarge, it was very small in the email.
                                                                                                       
I'll try to resize it but not sure of the clearity it will have.  
                                                                       
Paul H.

moosejaw

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2006, 02:24:48 PM »
Roger has given  you sound advice.  Unless the piece was documented in a diary, letter, newspaper article, etc., or you have a written receipt from the purchaser, there is no way to authenticate the piece.  Lots of "old wives tales" often come with family treasures, but unfortunately, they are just that: old wives tales.  

Documentation is the key.

Darby

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2006, 12:31:00 AM »
Documentation is the key, you are right. As an archaeologist, I gather data from many sources: Museum pieces archaeological collections, and private collections (such as the subscribers on this list).
The Native American family lore for this particular skillet holds up in a couple of areas.  There is a map that Capt. William Clark drafted that had a burn mark from the lid of a cook pot. I deducted that since it was a burn mark not a food stain, it may have come from the lid of a bake skillet that had coals heating it up enough to give it the capacity to burn a piece of paper.  So, I asked myself,  how many bake skillets have those same measurements? Unknown, since no one has responded.

Lack of data means no data, hence I am soliciting data. Even if I get data from 100 skillets that fit the parameters (a skillet with three legs and low placed handle without a hang hole) and say, 10 percent fit the skillet lid measurements, it is not proof, but it can be interesting to the question at hand: namely was this skillet such a common size that it could not possibly be determined that this particular skillet belonged to  Lewis and Clark.  What if measurements for 1000 skillets come in, and only 1% fit Old Johns skillet. That would be very compelling evidence that the skillet at hand belonged to Lewis and Clark.  

Either no one on the list has a skillet with three legs/no hang hole/ low handle etc. or they haven't responded yet.  So, I am at a data dead-end. This is normal for archaeological research, and so this question cannot be addressed by the body of existing skillets from the pre-1840 era, because either these skillets aren't in the CI collections of the list members, or the skillets don't exist anymore except in a couple of museums (and one I saw on ebay).  So, if anyone has a skillet with three legs, a low handle and no hang hole,  please just measure the diameter of the top rim and send it to me. outer edge to outer edge. If you have any provenience data, that would be good to know.

Thanks,
Melissa

Steve_Stephens

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2006, 01:43:46 AM »
In the mid 1980's or later there was a dealer in an Antiques mall-in the basement- in Sturbridge, MA who had a lot of early hearth iron cookware pieces.  Joel should know who he is and if he's still selling there.  Most of us in WAGS collect 20th century pieces or, at least, stove cookware.  In the thousands of pieces I have had in the past 30+ years I have had none to maybe 2 of the skillets like Old Johns but have seen quite a few (several handfulls or more).  The style isn't rare but I just don't know much about them or cookware of that era.  There would seem to be some knowledge of early pieces from people living in early American homes that still have cooking fireplaces in New England and other states with more population in the early years.  I know how hard it will be to document your piece but wish you good luck.

Steve

Offline Clark Rader

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2006, 08:11:34 AM »
Melissa, my spider 3 leg skillet is larger than yours:

Diam. outside 10.9375"
Hight with legs 4.25"
legs 1.5" center to center 6.375
Handle 8.5" in center of sk. has hole drilled in end of handle
gate mark
Top of sk. has slight rim around outside edge

What I know, I keep forgetting.

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2006, 08:55:11 AM »
Quote
In the mid 1980's or later there was a dealer in an Antiques mall-in the basement- in Sturbridge, MA who had a lot of early hearth iron cookware pieces.  Joel should know who he is and if he's still selling there.  
Steve
That dealer is still there down in the corner of the basement of a shop on Route 20.  I visit there a lot and buy things from him, but don't know his name.  He always has items like this in his section.
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Offline Tom Neitzel

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2006, 09:29:52 AM »
Melissa, I've shared your information and request with an individual I work with that has been quite actively involved with studying and interpreting the Lewis and Clark expedition information where I work at the Northwest Trek Wildlife Park near Eatonville, WA.  We are still providing information and examples of plants and animals they saw on a day by day basis as they progress back east.  Quite a bit of expedition research was done in preparation for the celebration last year.

In speaking with her the impression she has is that most of the cookware was made of brass.  In addition, these items were critical to their day to day progress and cooking.  The cookware was not taken on the journey to trade.  Still being almost on the Pacific Coast it is unlikely that they would have given away such a needed item.  Apparently the expedition did record trading some cookware for a desperatly needed horse a bit further east as they were starting to get back into the mountains.  This trade being done not out of gratitude, but instead making a choice of what was more critical to survival and expediton success.

Tom

Offline Greg Stahl

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2006, 01:34:05 PM »
neat thread!
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Offline Scott Price

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Re: Lewis & Clark
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2023, 09:07:03 PM »
We are a lot further than this now.