Author Topic: wanted item  (Read 17114 times)

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2007, 06:39:52 PM »
Daniel, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.  ;D ;D ;D

Now what tribe is that little Indian boy from, come clean with it, I know he's not from the Blackfoot?

He sure is a fine lookin boy wherever he's from, probably gonna grow up and be a movie star.  ;)

Offline Jerry Cermack

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2007, 07:51:43 PM »
Quote
Jerry, now your story about the size 6 and 7 drums/kettles vs the 8 and 9 drums/kettles sounds good and all, and don't get me wrong, I like it, BUT, if its all the same with you, I'm stickin with my story?
CPR.....I got the info straight from the Chief's mouth!....... :D
Jerry

Offline Daniel McDowell

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2007, 07:52:57 PM »
Thanks Perry, pic is copied of some ad. By the way attatched is a photo of a real water drum. The pow wows I have been to try to stay as close to the Native American Skills as they can, I think this cast Iron water pot rage maybe be some thing new sound kids have going. I get several Native American mag. going to look into this a little bit.
Scotch/Irish Forever "AMEN"

Offline Jerry Cermack

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2007, 09:26:16 PM »
"CPR.......here are some parts of what I was told.

"a water drum kettle used in the Native American Church, peyote religion.  A buckskin hide is tied over the top of the kettle, after the side bails have been removed, and the legs must be long enough for the rope to pass under them without extended beyond the tips of the legs."

"The kettles have the bails or "ears" removed and filed smooth.  The kettle is half filled with water and a wet, circular piece of buckskin hide is tied over the top using round stones, marbles, or sometimes pecans as "bosses" or means to wrap the commercial rope around.  The tying is rather ingenious as  the rope passes around the "bosses" and under the kettle legs to form a seven pointed star when the kettle is looked at from the underside.  The drum is then struck with a hardwood stick decorated with carved peyote symbols and designs.  The ideal kettle is a #6 although many prefer a #7.  The old kettles made of pig iron are especially desired as they are much lighter in weight than the later kettles.  One member drums for another who sings with a gourd rattle, fan, and staff.  These peyote songs are of a rapid tempo with a staccato beat."

"Indians like the lighter kettles because they are easier to pass around the meeting as the drum goes around the tipi.  I would call this kettle a big 6 or a small 7 , but it is what I have been looking for.  I have been checking cast iron kettles and pots for a couple of years and this is the first one I have bought.  When you look at the 6, 7, and 8 kettles you will usually notice they are being bid on from Arizona and New Mexico and many times have ebay names that evoke Indian themes.  Most of the bidders are Navajos where the peyote religion is at present the strongest. I have gone to meetings up in Oklahoma for many years and can tell you that these kettles are highly sought after and well valued.  Thanks for making it available.  Jim.  P.S. I have attached another photo of a peyote drum tied up, ready for use. The drummer is Duane Shields and the singer, with staff and fan, is the Rev. Joseph Shields Sr."

"I have heard that the Oto Indians preferred 8's back in the old days but most peyotist considered them a little too big and harder to manipulate.  I am attaching a scan of three peyotist from the nineteenth century using what appears to be a #8 kettle.   These three men were prominent men of the Comanche, Apache, and Kiowa tribes, respectively."

I'll also post the pictures he sent me.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 09:31:49 PM by Jerry_Cermack »
Jerry

Offline Jerry Cermack

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2007, 09:27:28 PM »
Another
Jerry

Offline Jerry Cermack

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2007, 09:28:04 PM »
Another
Jerry

Offline Daniel McDowell

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2007, 12:37:32 AM »
I,m sorry, wrong drum I thought they were using them for traditional water drums, my exposure to and knowledge of the Peyote Cult/Native American Church is limited as most of my contacts are Triditional and/or Christian Native Americans which have some disagreements with the use of Peyote in combination with Christian worship. With the growth of the NAC in the area between the Ms. river and Rockies I can see where the pots could start to get in short supply. Also this drum is used in a ceremony that only really started to grow after Wonded Knee. The NAC was formally orginized around 1912 and I find it hard to acept as part of the old culture. I do however think its unfare to blame the distruction of the pots on Native American PowWows. The drum is not used there, it is to be used mainly in the Peyote Ceremony. Some of the CD's of this drum music advises you not to do any thing that takes both sides of you brain while playing it. I still think it's young people in the NAC that want the old pots so they can be like the old one's, in some of my quick scans of the Peyote history they like to use brass so the rust would stain the skins. I see web sites that will sell all size and types of 6 and 7 with no ears to remove so all you Peyote chewers stay away from the cast iron.
Scotch/Irish Forever "AMEN"

Offline Daniel McDowell

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2007, 12:49:25 AM »
One more thing, you guys buying up all the pots to have yourself a Peyote Ceremony make sure your name is on a tribal roll somewhere and you have your card with you the Feds frowns on Non Native Americans toten around Peyote
Scotch/Irish Forever "AMEN"

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2007, 07:46:49 AM »
WOW, chewin on peyote and beatin on drums. I know this cast iron business is a cat of many tails, where else will it lead us?  :-/

And Jerry, thanks for posting that information and the pictures. It was interesting. Sounds like some of the Indians march to the beat of a different drum.

Offline Judith Holiday

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2010, 12:31:01 PM »
Perry: You just couldn't pass on that pun. The lowest form of humor you know.
"Freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much." Justice Robert Jackson 1943

Offline Jeff Seago

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Re: wanted item
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2010, 01:59:42 PM »
Now Judith I thought it was funny!  I didn't even think of it as I was trying to determine how to pronounce the name and then Perry writes that and I finally figured out how it is pronounced!