Please help identify this muffin/biscuit pan- 1858

[49311]

I was thinking this was a N. Waterman but I am not sure.



Original Size 1
Original Size 2
Original Size 3



On the front it says "Patent April 5 1858" on the reverse it has the number "9"  (There no quotation marks on the actual piece).
The Date could be April 5, 8, or 9 -- it is just too dirty to tell at this point but it looks closest to 5 comparing from 5's and 8's in the 1858 mark.

Also, has anyone actually cooked on one of these?  It seems so small-- maybe tiny dinner rolls or something like that could be baked it in.  Thanks in advance!

[jordan]

i dont know who made the pan, but i wanted to say that i like the way you set up your pictures, and how you added the coins for scale..... NICE.   Jordan

[speedy]

Hello Tom. It is likely a Russell and Erwin or a Waterman. From images in my file it should have Waterman, with Boston immediately underneath, at the other end. I have an R & E oval shaped gem pan that has the identical patent date ( April 5 1858) and the manufacturers ID at the other end. We have used it often to make ginger gem cakes. With fresh whipped cream and jam...wicked!
If you want images I could email to you.

[Chris Stairs]

Hi Tom,
  As James said, it is much like a Waterman, or an R&E. If it were marked as such at the other handle you would know for sure.
  There were quite few a foundries making (copying) these pans over the years. Without the maker's mark, it is impossible to say who really made it.

  We have the patent info posted on the member's side, along with scans of old catalogs and pictures of the various pans made and marked by the first companies to make them.

James,
   I would like to see the images of your pan. I have only seen 2 patent dates on these. Aug, 1858 and April, 1959. Sometimes they are hard to read. You can email them to me (the "Email button" below should work), or post to this thread.

[49311]

Hello Tom. It is likely a Russell and Erwin or a Waterman. From images in my file it should have Waterman, with Boston immediately underneath, at the other end. I have an R & E oval shaped gem pan that has the identical patent date ( April 5 1858) and the manufacturers ID at the other end. We have used it often to make ginger gem cakes. With fresh whipped cream and jam...wicked!
If you want images I could email to you.

Thanks for the information James.  Yes, if you could email me those pictures I would greatly appreciate it  and thanks for the info on what to use this for :)



@Jordan - thanks for the compliment!  ;D

@Chris - thanks for the help as well :)

[speedy]

Hello Chris. I will take some clearer, cleaner images of it in natural light tomorrow. In the meantime there is an image or two on their way to your in-box. It is a #4 Russell & Erwin.
I was told by Luke that chefs know the shape as 'BARQUETTE'
Cheers. ken

[speedy]

One email on its way Tom

[49311]

One email on its way Tom

just got it.  Thanks again James

[Chris Stairs]

Thank you James (Ken?).
  All of the most commonly found 11 pan styles have the same April 5, 1859 patent date. They did not have separate patents for each differently shaped form.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=DVtfAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 The earlier Aug 31,1858 patent marking is seldom seen, and usually found in raised letters on the bottom , along the edge of the cups.

Chris

[speedy]

No worries Chris & Tom, I am pleased to have been able to contribute and be of some help. Thanks for that patent information Chris, I have saved it in my USA cast iron file.
I would dearly like to come upon a few more R&E pans but the chances are rare down this way.
Now, I cannot remember where the following came from, all I can recall is that I came upon it while trawling the internet searching for any  information on my R&E pan.

" Russell & Erwin

Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Co., New Britain Conn., U. S. A.

(R & E ) Russell and Erwin Manufacturing Co., Plantsville, Conn

Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company  1839-1902

The Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company originated in 1839 when H.E. Russell, Cornelius B. Erwin, and Frederick T. Stanley formed a partnership to produce locks and builders' hardware, under the name of Stanley, Russell & Company. When Mr. Stanley withdrew from the partnership in 1840, Smith Matteson and John H. Bowen were added, changing the name of the company to Matteson, Russell & Company. In 1846, with the death of Mr. Matteson and the expiration of the partnership terms, the company's name changed to Russell & Erwin. In 1851 the partnership was reorganized as a joint stock company and was from that time known as Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company, until its merger with P.& F. Corbin in 1902. Cornelius Erwin served as president of the company from 1851 until his death in 1885. The company is best known as the pioneer of the wrought steel lock industry."

Perhaps Frederick T. Stanley had an association with Stanley Tools? Or am I kicking the wrong ball?
Matteson and Corbin sound familiar, but where from??

[49311]

No worries Chris & Tom, I am pleased to have been able to contribute and be of some help. Thanks for that patent information Chris, I have saved it in my USA cast iron file.
I would dearly like to come upon a few more R&E pans but the chances are rare down this way.
Now, I cannot remember where the following came from, all I can recall is that I came upon it while trawling the internet searching for any  information on my R&E pan.

" Russell & Erwin

Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Co., New Britain Conn., U. S. A.

(R & E ) Russell and Erwin Manufacturing Co., Plantsville, Conn

Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company  1839-1902

The Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company originated in 1839 when H.E. Russell, Cornelius B. Erwin, and Frederick T. Stanley formed a partnership to produce locks and builders' hardware, under the name of Stanley, Russell & Company. When Mr. Stanley withdrew from the partnership in 1840, Smith Matteson and John H. Bowen were added, changing the name of the company to Matteson, Russell & Company. In 1846, with the death of Mr. Matteson and the expiration of the partnership terms, the company's name changed to Russell & Erwin. In 1851 the partnership was reorganized as a joint stock company and was from that time known as Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company, until its merger with P.& F. Corbin in 1902. Cornelius Erwin served as president of the company from 1851 until his death in 1885. The company is best known as the pioneer of the wrought steel lock industry."

Perhaps Frederick T. Stanley had an association with Stanley Tools? Or am I kicking the wrong ball?
Matteson and Corbin sound familiar, but where from??

I found the information you cited. It is from http://www.buildingmuseum.org/library/hardware.asp

Here is all the info:

Title: RUSSELL & ERWIN MANUFACTURING CO., VOLUME 4, 1877
Subtitle:  Price List And Descriptive Catalogue Of Hardware Made By The Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Co., New Britain Conn., U. S. A.
Other Authors:  
Author Notes:  
Date: 1877, 1878
Publisher: Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Co., New Britain Conn., U. S. A.
Description:  10 1/2 x 12 3/4, 277 pages, 3 page index, illus, specifications, prices. "This Catalogue Comprises All Goods Described In Vol. 1 1874 Together With The Aditions We Have Since Made To Our Variety". Plus 10 x 12 1/2, 20 page supplement "Revised Prices And Discounts And Description Of New Goods" Aug. 1, 1878.
Notes: The Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company originated in 1839 when H.E. Russell, Cornelius B. Erwin, and Frederick T. Stanley formed a partnership to produce locks and builders' hardware, under the name of Stanley, Russell & Company. When Mr. Stanley withdrew from the partnership in 1840, Smith Matteson and John H. Bowen were added, changing the name of the company to Matteson, Russell & Company. In 1846, with the death of Mr. Matteson and the expiration of the partnership terms, the company's name changed to Russell & Erwin. In 1851 the partnership was reorganized as a joint stock company and was from that time known as Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company, until its merger with P.& F. Corbin in 1902. Cornelius Erwin served as president of the company from 1851 until his death in 1885. The company is best known as the pioneer of the wrought steel lock industry.
Subjects: , Hardware, builders, tools.

[Chris Stairs]

Perhaps Frederick T. Stanley had an association with Stanley Tools? Or am I kicking the wrong ball?

James,
  I think it's the same F.T. Stanley.

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-stanley-works

Scroll down for the history. Same small town, same time frame.

[49311]

Ok now I think it is the R&E.  Waterman has there number stamp in the middle.

I actually found a marked R&E #9 online and the comparison speaks for itself:

Unmaked 1 Marked 1

[size=14]Unmaked 2[/size]

[size=14]Marked 2[/size] (it looks like 1859 but the person had it listed as 1858)

[size=14]Unmarked 3[/size]

[size=14]Marked 3[/size]



So I think it is either an unmarked R&G or another company bought their mold at the time and made the same piece.  There are too many similarities imho.  But let me know what you guys think.

Thanks again for all the help :)

[Chris Stairs]

Ok now I think it is the R&E.  Waterman has there number stamp in the middle.
I actually found a marked R&E #9 online and the comparison speaks for itself:
So I think it is either an unmarked R&G or another company bought their mold at the time and made the same piece.  There are too many similarities imho.  But let me know what you guys think.
Thanks again for all the help :)

Tom,
  With so many foundries all over the country, making these pans, there is no way to know who made yours. The fact that the maker's mark was removed when it was cast suggests that it was not sold by R&E, or Waterman.
   Any little foundry could use a common gem pan from another seller, and either use it as a pattern, or use it to make their own pattern. They would not have needed to buy a pattern from R&E, or Waterman to do this. It was a common practice at the time.

 Good news is, the muffins and cakes won't care, and will taste just as good. ;)

[49311]

Ok now I think it is the R&E.  Waterman has there number stamp in the middle.
I actually found a marked R&E #9 online and the comparison speaks for itself:
So I think it is either an unmarked R&G or another company bought their mold at the time and made the same piece.  There are too many similarities imho.  But let me know what you guys think.
Thanks again for all the help :)

Tom,
  With so many foundries all over the country, making these pans, there is no way to know who made yours. The fact that the maker's mark was removed when it was cast suggests that it was not sold by R&E, or Waterman.
   Any little foundry could use a common gem pan from another seller, and either use it as a pattern, or use it to make their own pattern. They would not have needed to buy a pattern from R&E, or Waterman to do this. It was a common practice at the time.

 Good news is, the muffins and cakes won't care, and will taste just as good. ;)

thanks for the info.  And yes, I am sure they will taste good once I clean up the pan :)